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ChromaTalk Archives: October 2005

Music UK Review

Chris Ryan [21030691]

Vince Hill's November 1982 Chroma review from Music UK magazine has been added to the site.

David Clarke [21030085++]

I got a kick out of the line:

"... and with the use of the cassette interface it can load or store immense amounts of programmed data..."

Ah, how perceptions change over the years ...

change ANVIL foam

Olli [21010284]

hi
i have an old anvil case. the foam is all rotton and smells bad. is there any replacement foam available?

Mike Jaynes [21030638+]

Hi;

My guess would be that you woulld have to buy large pieces of foam from a shipping company or case company "and cut to fit" for the Chroma. Alternately you can glue strips of new foam together to make the interior pieces. Since the nature of these cases are "custom fit", there would not be any pre-cut foam available that would fit the Chroma off the shelf, it will need to be made.

I am sure Anvil would "recondition" the case, but I don't know what it would cost. Might be worth an email to them to find out.

Olli [21010284]

yes, thats what i thought. i was wondering where i could get the foam... what brands there are. i am in france

Chris Ryan [21030691]

When I needed mine redone, I just took my Chroma case in to a shop that sold all kinds of foam (for camera cases and such--even pillows I think). They did the measurements and made me new pieces; I took the case home and did the filthy job of scraping out the old foam. The shop glued the new foam in for me.

Doug Terrebonne [21030114]

Anvil will re-foam their cases for $60 I think...

Olli [21010284]

yeah that sounds as the best idea BUT... i am in france... :-)

chroma FS in Stockholm again

Jesper Ödemark [21010135]

[URL removed]

I _think_ it's the guy I've mentioned that has two... it's _not_ the same as the one sold a few weeks ago 'cause I know where that one (2102xxxx) ended up...

15000 SEK is circa 1600 euro or 1900 USD

Expanding patch memory ?

Vincent Russo [21030433]

I remember my first Chroma having a toggle switch for a extra set of programs.

See the FAQ for pointers to pictures and more info on the memory expansion modification.

Would anyone be interested in coming up with something like this in the future ?

Philip Jelatis

I had this mod done to my Chroma. Mark Smith-who worked for ARP and then Fender-had it on his and gave me a parts list and directions. It is basically another chip that piggybacks on top of the stock one. The toggle is mounted on the right cheekblock and gives you another 50 programs. No linking between sets however.

David Gowin [21030611]

Any chance you might want to share the parts list and directions he gave you? It would be greatly appreciated!

Philip Jelatis

Sorry, I don't have the info anymore. Perhaps the more tech-oriented list members could come up with something similar.

Keyboard Article Posted

Chris Ryan [21030691]

Mark Vail's article on the Chroma, from this month's Keyboard magazine, is now available on keyboardmag.com.

The article has since been revised; the new version does not include graphics or a link to this site.

Chroma Inflation

Chris Ryan [21030691]

Wow--the current bid on eBay item 7354503475 is US$2,650.00 and there are still three days left in the auction!

Mike Jaynes [21030638+]

Interestingly it did not make reserve in the previous auction, last week. I'm not sure what the difference is now.

Doug Terrebonne [21030114]

Wow and to think it took me quite a while to sell mine for $750...

Paul Hackett-Evans [21010094]

It looks like a beautiful example of the Chroma, I'd go for that one if I had the money.

Tom Klepacki [21030025]

I recall that Chromas were trading for $400-$500, a few years ago. Ya gotta wait these things out. My AKG BX10 spring reverb is now worth $800... Couldn't get $200 for it, a few years ago. My 1964 Princeton Reverb amp was trading for like $800 recently. Then a very similar one sold for $2200 on ebay.

Right timing is the key.

That guy could write some persuasive copy, too!

Chris Ryan [21030691]

That guy could write some persuasive copy, too!

Yes, it's effective and funny. But the instrument is in beautiful condition, as well.

Jesper Ödemark [21010135]

Cool!

But on the other hand - that unit looks amazing so I bet a collector will buy it and store it and seldom use it... a pity! Someone get the "Stockholm Chroma" I mentioned for God's sake!

Olli [21010284]

Right timing is the key.

i guess, you just determined what makes a good investment... :-)

David Clarke [21030085++]

Really big Chroma Inflation

WOW - the Recent Ebay Chroma (21030668) went for $3,450.00 USD!!

Tom Klepacki [21030025]

Re: Really big Chroma Inflation

Can I get an AMEN, brothers and sisters! (And I am really not a religious person. )

I paid $3750 for my Chroma in 1982, and I've been flirting with selling mine (#25/ of the first 50). Mine needs restoration, but I still have all of the original stuff... pedals, literature, cassette factoty patches, (recommended) Radio Shack cassette player, etc.

Any interest out there?

Olli [21010284]

Re: Really big Chroma Inflation

Any interest out there?

i am afraid, you still lose a lot of money even at 3450,- i recommend keep and enjoy it another 20 years! :-)

Olli [21010284]

Re: Really big Chroma Inflation

wow indeed. it was very clean. even mine is not as beautiful! :-) i think that is good news for all of us.

Tom Klepacki [21030025]

Re: Really big Chroma Inflation

20 years? But I'm not playing it like I used to. It may be time to let the 'bird fly and sing again'! At a reasonable price.

Olli [21010284]

Re: Really big Chroma Inflation

yeah. i know what you mean... :-(

Mark Hauptschein [21030668]

Re: Really big Chroma Inflation

This was my Chroma which I sold last December for around $2250, so I'm particularly amazed what it went for less than a year later! I can attest to the quality of the instrument -- I kept it in very good shape and invested in several repairs, including the case. I can assure everyone there was nothing else that needed work on it. A nice profit on a simple product flip.

Perhaps I should have written a long, spirited description like the new seller did!

Anyway, I have no regrets, as it served me well all those years.

Jim Russo [21030433]

Re: Really big Chroma Inflation

Ebay is all about timing and presentation. Im sure if there were links to audio demo's it would of went for more even : ) Chroma forever : )

Battery replacement interval

Paul Hackett-Evans [21010094]

Hi,
My Chromas out of the flightcase to play again for a couple of days while I'm between hospital placements. I was wondering while it's out, should I consider replacing the memory backup batteries? The current set was put in in July 2003 when I finished restoring it. Set Split 6 gives a battery voltage of 3.08, so its getting close to the 3v limit below which stored data can become lost. I think Ill probably replace them while Ive got the Chroma out.

I was just wondering what the normal battery life expectancy is, and if there is a best brand of battery to use to avoid the possibility of leaks?

Chris Ryan [21030691]

I don't think there's a set interval; the Performance Manual recommends replacing the battery "If the cell reading in the DATA READOUT is less than 2.5 volts." Mine hasn't needed replacing in ages. I've never had a problem with leaks. Perhaps if the unit is turned on regularly it prevents this problem.

Jesper Ödemark [21010135]

Synths that are on from now and then seldom has any leak problems... Those messed up SH-101s and Polysixes flooding Ebay are always "attic finds" and similar. A friend of mine recently had to replace the battery in his JX3P since... well, since he bought it in 84 or something like that!

Paul Hackett-Evans [21010094]

Further to my query about the backup battery interval:

I rang Roy Paynter tonight, he suggests that the batteries should be changed approximately every two years. The batteries should be good quality alkaline batteries, any reputable big-name brand should be fine.

The Chroma's memory chips need to have a steady voltage of 2.6v to maintain the memory contents, and the circuitry supporting it needs 0.2v to operate, so if the batteries fall below 2.8v, the memory will be lost. Set Split 6 gives a readout of the voltage.

The current used is miniscule, in the order of microamps, so the batteries do last a long time. The current flows constantly when the Chroma is switched off, keeping the memory contents intact.

Something I didn't know was that when the Chroma is switched on, it uses the output of a diode to very gently and very slowly put charge back into the batteries, extending their lifespan. Alkaline batteries do not recharge as well as purpose-built rechargeables, but they do accept some recharging at a very slow rate. So Chromas that go for long periods without use will tend to need their batteries changing more often than those that get a lot of use.

My own Chroma has spent more time in its flightcase than out of it while I've been at University. The batteries have been in it for two years, and the voltage is 3.08v. A new set of batteries reads 3.28v, so the drain is very slow. Nevertheless, as a general rule, Roy suggests changing them roughly every two years, to ensure healthy batteries and reduced chance of leakage from ageing batteries.

Roy recommends that the batteries should be changed as follows: remove the Chroma's back/top panel, but ensure that the earth connections that attach to one of the rear panel screws are still in place. (Screw them back onto the chassis if necessary). Unscrew the four front panel screws to hinge up the front panel to gain access to the batteries. Then switch the Chroma on and touch part of the metal chassis (NOT the components!) yourself, so your body is at the same electrical potential as the Chroma. Then remove the old batteries and instal the new ones. Switch the Chroma off and replace the front and rear panels, ensuring that all electrical earths are correctly attached. This method will ensure the memory contents remain intact, and that the Chroma's sensitive components aren't harmed by static discharges or by differing potentials between yourself and the Chroma's circuitry.

Incidentally, Roy told me he recently had four Chromas in his workshop at the same time. He's very fond of the Chroma, and when he had completed servicing the four of them, he gave them his customary sustained test to be sure they were fully up to spec. He linked them all together using MIDI to create in effect a 32-voice Chroma, He said it was great. I'm jealous!

One last thing. Roy's fixing up a Polaris for me, it's his daughter's that she's selling to me (yes, times are a little better for me now). I was bemoaning the decision to manufacture the Polaris in shades of blue, which in my opinion wasn't as nice as the "Chroma coloured" prototypes. Roy told me that the former ARP people who designed the Polaris at CBS also wanted to put it into production in the prototype colours. The blue colour scheme was insisted upon by the marketing people at CBS/Fender. It was because there was a plan to market a corporate Fender Music suite of instruments, all with the same common shades of blue and white as their design theme. Apparently some Fender amps of the time were first to carry the blue schemes, then the Polaris. I wonder what else they made in those colours?

Anyway, but for that, we'd have had Polarises that looked much nicer and more consistent with the Chroma. Shame!

Chris Ryan [21030691]

Polaris Colours

Thanks for relaying Roy's recommendations on battery replacement, Paul. I'll add this to the FAQ.

A note on the Polaris colour schemes: it seems that the original Polaris colours, used for the production prototypes, corresponded to the alternate (and very rare) "Halloween" or red Chroma colour scheme. Robert Witt, the "screen-printing guy" at ARP and Fender, sent me a note a few years back to explain how this happened. See "Red Chroma's" from the November 2003 archives.

Jesper Ödemark [21010135]

Re: Polaris Colours

Funny how things can just be "let out the door" of a pro company like that. I have the equivalent of the Halloween Chroma when talking about swedish cult box SidStation from Elektron. _Many_ SidStations have been sold, almost all of these are silver in colour. 50 was made as the SidStation Ninja in black, 5-10 are red and are the original hand built units for the Elektron crew and this far I've run into one blue - mine...

I know, this in not Chroma talk, but I just like to tell the story of my unit, confirmed by Elektron as an example of how weirdness can occur. When they made the Ninja batch they accuired prototypes of different colourings and from the manufacturer of the case they also got a blue version (metallic blue btw). They decided on the black version and the blue panel was put away on a shelf until the original owner of mine came to pick up his ordered unit at the Elektron office (since he live in the same town (Gothenburg)). He saw the blue panel and asked about it, decided it looked great and asked if he could have it fitted on his new SidStation...

And yes - what a great choice it was! I'd love it to be on top of a Halloween Chroma instead of a standard one! ;)

Re: Walt Whitney Patch Tape on eBay

Go to earlier thread, April 2005. Note that Walt Whitney released his patches into the public domain; they are now available from the Patch Downloads page.

Brian Silva [21030450++]

Hello,

I'm interested in a copy of this patch tape. Do you know where I might find one?

Chris Ryan [21030691]

I believe that Paul Tillotson (whom I gather is eBay user "gablelomb") won the bidding for a Walt Whitney tape last spring. Did Walt ever respond about our collectively buying out the rights to the patches, as discussed in April?

Paul Tillotson [21030218]

I got a copy of this tape right about the time of my most recent Chroma failure which was about 6 months ago and so have never heard these patches. My tech has become hostile and completely unproductive: he's had my Quadra for a couple years when I brought it in for a broken slider shaft and a failed tempco in the phaser; he's charged for gear that is just as broken when I pick it up as when I dropped it off.

I don't think I have the means of copying this without a Chroma, and as was brought up on the list a while ago, I'm not sure it's such a great idea to freely spread around someone else's work. Bah, humbug.

Brian Silva [21030450++]

Paul,

I remember all the hoopla about copyright and such when this tape was being talked about at the time. I could see it being a big deal if someone tried to mass produce his work and sell it commercially, but since that's not going to happen, I don't view it as a real issue. I just want some decent patches in my unit. It's certainly yours to do with as you please. What's your feeling on it?

Chris Ryan [21030691]

I don't think copyright law distinguishes between items which are mass produced and those which have a more limited audience. I could be wrong, and it may vary by country. I think the proposal to buy out the rights to the patches was a good one, and still wonder if Walt ever responded to that idea. Did anyone try to get in touch with him on that? If not, I'd be happy to try.

Just to repeat my position from last April, as mailing list administrator I can't stop anyone from sending out the patches; but I won't encourage it and wouldn't include the patches in the list archives (or on the Patch Downloads page of the site) if permission hasn't been granted from Walt. I've tried to be quite rigourous in obtaining permission to post articles and files on the site.

I'm not sure whether Walt's patches are supposed to be of astounding quality--despite buying his tape I've never loaded them into my Chroma--but there are literally thousands of other patches available for download on the site.

Chris Ryan [21030691]

I have e-mailed Walt to ask him what we can do about getting his patches released into the public domain.

Chris Ryan [21030691]

Well, that was quick and easy. Walt has agreed to release the patches into the public domain. So, anyone who has them in sysex format send them to the list or directly to me and I'll add them to the site!

From: "Walter Whitney"
Date: October 15, 2005 5:06:51 PM PDT (CA)
To: "'Chris Ryan'"

Chris, I am agreeable to release the chroma patches to the public domain, just give me credit for the work, thanks, I hope the few chroma owners out there appreciate them. Walter Whitney

Paul Tillotson [21030218]

There's a happy ending for us all. I wish I had a functioning Chroma.

Paul Hackett-Evans [21010094]

This message was sent to Walt Whitney and cc'd to the list.

Thank you, Walt. I know how much work goes into creating good patches for the Chroma. As a lifelong Chroma lover, I'll be very pleased to have your patches, when somebody sends them to Chris for the group.

David Clarke [21030085++]

... I got a copy of this tape ... I don't think I have the means of copying this without a Chroma

Paul - if you can make an audio copy of the tape (e.g., mail it to me as a .wav, .snd, etc.) I should be able to convert it to sysex for group.

Paul Tillotson [21030218]

I think my sound card is basic enough that I can only send in 1 minute chunks, though I'm not too sure at this point. I'd be happy to make a DAT copy and snail mail it to you, or an analog cassette copy, recorded from deck to deck. I have moved away from computers in my studio altogether and this computer no longer even has CD burning software associated with it. I guess I should go live in a cave on an island somewhere...

Chris Ryan [21030691]

Give me a few days and I'll haul out one of those old-fashioned "cassette tape" things and see what I can do. :)

David Clarke [21030085++]

I think my sound card is basic enough that I can only send in 1 minute chunks, though I'm not too sure at this point.

A full Chroma patch dump (in 'regular save') format is only about 40 seconds or so, if that helps to know.

I'd be happy to make a DAT copy and snail mail it to you, or an analog cassette copy, recorded from deck to deck.

... no problem to support an analog cassette copy either, if that's easier.

Chroma and Expander on Ebay

David Clarke [21030085++]

Currently in Australia - but it does look like World-wide shipping is offered.

Item #'s 7360230457 & 7360230499 respectively.

An interesting comment in the Chroma writeup. It says "...this synth is one of the last 16 with revision 4 boards..." Not sure exactly what that's intended to convey ...

David Clarke [21030085++]

As a follow up to myself, the seller has provided the S/N info:

Expander s/n 16310010
Chroma s/n 21040011

It does not look like either of these are currently accounted for in the Registry.

Chris Ryan [21030691]

They are now.

[See above for links to the registry entries, with pictures from the auctions.]

It's interesting to note that this is the second model 1631 Expander reported.

Jesper Ödemark [21010135]

"If you have the synth you know the tech" - not a bad liner for any repair shop!

Note failure

Uro [21030401]

Problem:

Known issues:

1) Notes E (two above middle C) and G (three below middle C) are neither responding directly through the audio inputs not through MIDI.

There are no other notes responding incorrectly.

Thoughts?

Dual Sustain Pedal on eBay

Chris Ryan [21030691]

Item 7360267775 from Sydney, NSW, Australia. Looks a bit beaten up (moldy?). Same seller as the Chroma and Expander posted yesterday.

Here's the picture:

what a resource!

Jesper Ödemark [21010135]

I must just mention that rhodeschroma.com is an amazing resource! I was just offered an expander offlist since somebody had seen my drool-infested mail about an expander. Curious as I am I checked it up in the registry and yes... it was there...

But no, I didn't take the offer, wasn't really my pricetag.

Software Chroma

ZooTooK

Hi all

I've had my eyes on the Chroma ever since Peter Vettesse posed with one on the cover of E&MM in the beginning of 84'... As they are as rare and costly as they are I concluded that I will never own a real Chroma....

As you all know, with the development of processor power and DSP cards it is now possible to make reasonable imitations of synths in software. And as nobody else has programmed a Chroma imitation I've made one myself. I've used a program called Reaktor by Native Instruments.

My aim is to make an imitation as close as possible. I shy away from using the term emulation as a sets the expectation to something that you can't tell the difference from the real thing - and my piece of software configuration file has no keyboard and it will not make a bump when you press a key... and the filters will not sound exactly the same etc. My ambition is to have the same feature set and to sound as close as possible within reasonable effort - not having a real synth to compare with.

I've now completed the design (with advice from David Hobson [21030506]) and I'm now looking for people interested doing some beta testing and making a few patches before I publish it upload the instrument in the user library of Native Instruments. There it will be free for all owners of Reaktor to download it and use.

To be able to use this Chroma imitation you need to be a owner of Reaktor - which is not free! About 500 USD. The configuration file I've made (called ensemble in Reaktor speak) will be available for free.

If you are interested please email me at: zootook -boink- telia -bup- com

Jesper Ödemark [21010135]

Reaktor at 500 and a new PC at 1000 or my chroma which I payed circa 1000 for... not a hard choice! ;)

I'd love to hear some samples though!

ZooTooK

Reaktor at 500 and a new PC at 1000 or my chroma which I payed circa 1000 for... not a hard choice! ;)

And don't forget to add a decent sound card: $150-300!!!

I'd love to hear some samples though!

Why don't you send me a printout of your favorite patch - I'll type it in and send you the sounding result!

Jesper Ödemark [21010135]

Good idea - I'll do that later this week...

Chris Ryan [21030691]

To be able to use this Chroma imitation you need to be a owner of Reaktor - which is not free! About 500 USD. The configuration file I've made (called ensemble in Reaktor speak) will be available for free.

Will the configuration file work with the Reaktor 30-day demo?

Dave Blees [21030552]

I have an inkling that, as a step even further, <someone> could probably program a little utility that would translate a chroma patch bank into other suitable language(s). hmmmm.... Chroma banks in XML, anyone?

(Now I'll just have to install that copy of Reaktor I've had in a box somewhere around here. Then I could compare the patches to my Chroma, side by side. wheeeee.e...e. . . . .)

ZooTooK

Regarding transfering patches... all parameters use the same number input (0-63 or whatever) so a manual input would be very much possible. I've tried to translate that into the same range, described in the manual. This is one critical part of imitating the real thing and is an important part of the beta testing - I expect some fine tuning.

Regarding automatic conversion it is probably possible to do. The synth itself (the configuration file I talked about) is called ensemble. That just describe the synth construction. Then you can program patches (called snapshots in Reaktor speak) and save several banks of 128 patches. These patch banks can be imported and exported. I would assume that you could "crack" the snapshot file format - it's not published. I assume that Native Instruments could assist in some details... Don't see why it would be kept a secret. When that's done I suppose someone with programming skills and time (not me) could write a converter.

ZooTooK

Will the configuration file work with the Reaktor 30-day demo?

I'm not sure. Reaktor version 2 could only load a selected few ensembles. Not sure about version 5 that's the latest. Have try....

ZooTooK

(Now I'll just have to install that copy of Reaktor I've had in a box somewhere around here. Then I could compare the patches to my Chroma, side by side. wheeeee.e...e. . . . .)

My ensemble is made in version 5 of Reaktor. Older version will not read the file.... :-(

New owner!

Thomas Story [21030352]

Just picked up number 21030352 today! Psyched! Might have to sell my Prophet VS to make room, but we'll see....

Anyways, came with footpedals, original manuals and an old case of case rash, but powers up fine. Haven't plugged it in yet soundwise, hopefully tonight after seeing Bauhaus in concert here in SF! Paid 500$, not too bad I think.

I'm sure I'll have lots of questions. Planning on upgrading the power supply, CEB interface and cleaning the wood real good like.

Anyways, that's it!

Vincent Russo [21030433]

Welcome to the asylum! LOL : )

Tom Klepacki [21030025]

Welcome to the die-hard club! $500 is cheap, if it works OK.... Really a fine instrument. The wooden keys are the ultimate magic! I own #25, out of the first 50, hand-assembled. Best of luck.

Olli [21010284]

hihi arf, arf

Olli [21010284]

sorry that was for the asylum...

Thomas Story [21030352]

That's ok - as an owner allready of a Sequential Studio 440 (serial number 13), and a Prophet VS, I do sometimes feel like I must be in some sort of mental state to take on yet another rare difficult to repair/replace beast...I'm glad (!) CAE is just down the way from me!

David Clarke [21030085++]

Tom - I don't reacall seing S/N 25 in the registry yet. Have we got you in there?

Uro [21030401]

Removed some overly vitriolic comments about CAE Sound.

If you need a tech in the Bay Area this is only one: see Greg M: http://www.analogsynthservice.com

This week he will have my Chroma for key service.

Go to next message in thread, November 2005