Skip Navigation.
Section 0

ChromaTalk Archives: August 2009

August Site Update

Chris Ryan [21030691]

No significant new content on the site this month; after completing the Polaris Service Manual I decided to take a break for the summer. But I have posted the July ChromaTalk archives.

I hope everyone in the Northern Hemisphere is having a good summer. For those in the Southern Hemisphere, I hear your turn is coming up next.

Rhodes Chroma Serial Numbers

Frank Hettlich [21030041+]

Hi Chris, hi Chroma lovers,

after owning my Chromas for many years I now found the time to forward my Rhodes Chroma serial numbers:

  • First Chroma with original ARP boards (!): 21030041
  • Second Chroma : 21010271
  • Third Chroma: I sold it to a Swiss friend a few years ago and will ask him for that serial number...

I am wondering about the serial numbering scheme because

  • why does the older Chroma starts with 2103
  • does have "only" the last part stamped on the metal sticker on the back

To have a look please go to RhodesChromaSNs Flickr set

P.S.: All Chromas are in like new condition NOW after I and my technician spent a lot of hours on them...

Jesper Ödemark [21010135]

Frank Hettlich skrev:

Hi Chris, hi Chroma lovers,

I am wondering about the serial numbering scheme because

  • why does the older Chroma starts with 2103

Why 2103 is north American voltage and 2101 is European you mean? It's odd indeed... And why they managed to squeeze the nordic (swedish) market in at 2102 is even more strange.

  • does have "only" the last part stamped on the metal sticker on the back

Since the PSU decided the first four digits.

To have a look please go to RhodesChromaSNs Flickr set

Nice!

Chris Ryan [21030691]

Why 2103 is north American voltage and 2101 is European you mean? It's odd indeed... And why they managed to squeeze the nordic (swedish) market in at 2102 is even more strange.

And then there are the Australian units, series 2104.

Jesper Ödemark [21010135]

But those at least seems more logical... I imagine that they would receive the numbers in the order they was approved (electrically) on each market, but then the 2103 for North America sounds stupid indeed. :D

David Clarke [21030085++]

... I imagine that they would receive the numbers in the order they was approved (electrically) on each market, but then the 2103 for North America sounds stupid indeed.

The numbering scheme seems to have been with ARP before the Chroma as you'll find the Omni II has models 2471 - 2473. It also seems to have been carried forward on the model numbers of the Chroma Polaris too (2121, 2123)

A bit more discussion on this can be found if you [look at my post in the thread Chroma 21010022 for sale on eBay (how many Chromas) from September 2006].

While the numbers generally seem to designate countries, I suggest that they more precisely represent power supply configurations (e.g., 240V SEMKO, 120V CSA, 240V STANDARD, etc.)

If folks with the 2101 (or 1631), 2102 and 2104 models would like to send me pictures of the power-supply configurations in your units - especially how it looks around any fuses present and the wiring to the power switch), I'd be happy to decode the details and share with the group.

Rhodes Chroma MIDI Interfaces

Frank Hettlich [21030041+]

Hi Chris, hi Chroma lovers,

the last week I was looking around in my basement and day after day I found more and more Rhodes Chroma MIDI interfaces...

Links found on RhodesChroma MIDI Interfaces Flickr set.

I am wondering where the other 2 MIDI interfaces (besides the CC+ and Syntech) are originating from?

One looks like a Syntech duplicate (but is not EXACTLY the same), the last one might be from German TBS company? Look at their recent ebay auction: [eBay Germany item #350016598934].

Chris Ryan [21030691]

The first one, made by "Touched by Sound," has been up for sale for a while; see "A couple of items on eBay Germany," May 2009. TBS has been mentioned as a service centre. The interface appears to be a Syntech clone. Could someone who speaks German and is in the area ask them?

The second box is more of a mystery. I'm tempted to say that it has the general shape of the EES kit, but the ports seem to be in the wrong place and the switches and lights (see EES MIDI Kit Instructions) are missing. Perhaps it could be the never-before-seen (by me at least) Jellinghaus kit?

David Clarke [21030085++]

... I am wondering where the other 2 MIDI interfaces (besides the CC+ and Syntech) are originating from?...

As noted, the first one in the group picture is going to be a Syntech part, and the last one is part of the MIDI cable set from a CC+.

Based on the ebay picture, and the less-then-perfect metalwork around the holes on the connector, I would have to assume that the second one is the same as the TBS one, as noted from eBay.

I'd also take a guess that the one covered in yellow plastic is the same as the one above (e.g., the TBS one). This guess is based on the fact that the 'bumps' in the plastic seem to match with where they are in the one in the grey metal case.

Frank Hettlich [21030041+]

Chroma Polaris membrane switches

Hello Chroma lovers,

big thank you to all who replied!

I will try to contact TBS and EES in Germany to get more infos about their interfaces and will ask them if those I own are made by them back in the days...

I have 2 other questions (if you do not mind...):

  1. I have partly damaged chroma polaris membrane switches that I would like to replace. You were mentioning a "fender spare parts guy on ebay" back in 2006. Do you know who that guy is and if he is still offering those meberane switches?
  2. I am now thinking of buying a Rhodes Chroma "controller box". Which one do you recommend (Doepfer, Behringer etc)?

Jesper Ödemark [21010135]

Re: Chroma Polaris membrane switches

Frank Hettlich skrev:

I will try to contact TBS and EES in Germany to get more infos about their interfaces and will ask them if those I own are made by them back in the days...

I don't think EES made any internal units. I think the only Chroma midi they sold was an external box (like mine, pictured on the site).

  1. I am now thinking of buying a Rhodes Chroma "controller box". Which one do you recommend (Doepfer, Behringer etc)?

I use the Doepfer Drehbank and love it. It's a matter of taste and economy I guess.

Chris Ryan [21030691]

Re: Chroma Polaris membrane switches

  1. I have partly damaged chroma polaris membrane switches that I would like to replace. You were mentioning a "fender spare parts guy on ebay" back in 2006. Do you know who that guy is and if he is still offering those meberane switches?

Another good place to look for advice on this is the Polaris mailing list.

Op Amps

Randel Osborne [21030467]

Over the last few years I've replaced op amps in the audio signal path of a few of my devices in the studio.

Typically, modern "boutique" devices from Analog Devices, Burr-Brown, etc. offer lower noise, lower distortion, and a faster slew rate than the "bulk" parts that most manufacturers specify.

The audio improvement is purely subjective, but I've had dramatic results when re-chipping a MOTU audio interface and MCI mixing console, and noticeable results in an OB-Xa.

I thought that I'd give it a try in the Chroma, and I replaced Z18 and Z19 in the Channel Mother Board, and Z3 and Z4 in the EQ board.

Pictures and a MP3 clip of the before and after can be found in On the Bench: Rhodes Chroma 3.

The recording was made directly from Output 0 to a SSL preamp to an Apogee AD-16x.

I think that the differences are subtle, at best, and some are lost in the translation to MP3.

I don't know that I'd recommend this upgrade to the Chroma, but thought I'd share my findings with the community.

Werner Schöenenberger [21010114]

Hi Randel,

thank you for the investigations. I am convinced that this is very helpful and makes the decision easy to upgrade a Chroma or not.

Programming Vibrato

Marais

Anyone have any basic tips for programing a simple LFO/OSC Vibrato on the Chroma that triggers automatically for keystroke rather than from the lever ? and the same for Pulse Width ? Good to be on the list finally.

Chris Ryan [21030691]

Great to have you on the list.

Have you tried for example selecting Sweep A (value 1) for the Pitch Modulation 1 Select [27], and giving Modulation 1 Depth [28] a non-zero value? See Pitch Parameters in the Programming Manual.

Hello All & Chroma repair suggestion needed

Joël Cordier

Hello to you all, my name is Joël and I'm a technician in Belgium (Europe). Actually I try to bring a Chroma back to life and realy need some help.

I contact you because I've spent several days without success. Despite of my experience in servicing vintage instruments I'm in deep trouble with this one.

I've read almost all your fabulous website. I first begun by replacing the power supply Now the 'computer' part is in trouble, and of course I have no sound.

When I turn the device on:

  • Program number display shows [ 1.]
  • Data readout display [01234567] (with some segments missing who do work when displaying something else)
  • The following LED are lit : NO LINK, EDIT A, EDIT B
  • The following LED are blinking at +/- 3 Hertz : LINK UPPER, STORE, COPY FROMA, COPY FROM B

When pushing buttons on the lesf pannel buttons I have a random result making some othe LED blink and change the Data Readout display [P16 6] or [P48 6] [SPL -10] When I move the Parameter Control slider some values change proportionally When iI push some buttons on the right pannel it causes often de µP to crash, the Data readout display displays some caracter with high intensity.

I disconnected the Midi Kit from the I/O board. This kits is a breadboard wrapping prototype or copy of the JL Cooper Chromaface. I deduced this from a string contained in the firmware and the list of components compared to a photo of the pcb on your website

I made the following actions or test

The power supply has been replaced by a LPQ110 switching power supply from Astec All voltages seem correct, measured at component pins on pcb. Voltage at computerboard is 4.99V wit almost no noise. Reset is generated by the new power supply, at power on it is held low and released 100mS after supply is stable.

All EPROM content have been compared with files on your site Rev1.2 Eprom on I/O board contains firmware 3.0 All RAM chips have been tested on my Hilo All-07 component programmer AD conversion seems to work, at least on the parameter control readout, sometime by chance I can read and edit the value with the [Parameter Control]

The D/A seems to work but the output signal is always the same, see scope screenshot. This output signal is following the values I read at the input of the D/A.

When I play a lot of notes the [Data Readout] flicker a bit showing scanning activity If I remove the EPROM of the scanning processor the display remains stable Removin the µP of the keyboard scan, doesn't help. I suppose that without those parts there is no scan and no interrupt called on the main µP

Lately I begun removing almost all integrated circuits from the I/O board and test them with the IC tester and placed IC sockets but did not find failing chip.

I would be very glad to read some suggestion because I despair.

David Clarke [21030085++]

... I try to bring a Chroma back to life and realy need some help.

When I turn the device on:

  • Program number display shows [ 1.]

This is good, normal behaviour.

  • Data readout display [01234567]...

This is letting us know that (for some reason) all 8 voice boards failed the auto-tune.

If you can do it without causing the system to crash, try pressing 'set split' and then "31".

This should reset the computer, call the auto-tune - but will leave the voice boards active (even if they fail tuning). This may allow you to try to create a Scratch Patch and see if you can get any audio from the board.

In terms of the crashing CPU - one main area of concern would be if there's evidence of acid (battery) damage on the CPU board. The corrosion to the vias can make for some very bad/difficult to debug scenarios.

The odd LED and panel behaviour may also indicate that there's an error in the I/O scanning of the panel (and other I/O sources). If so, that could cause general problems too.

If there's another (willing) Chroma owner nearby the easiest approach might be to swap entire boards (CPU board, I/O board, etc.) with the affected machine - to at least help identify which elements are good and which are bad.

Good luck - and let us know how you make out.

Joël Cordier

Thank you a lot David,

for the time you took to write those suggestions. I will certainly give a feedback as soon something happens.

Go to next message in thread, October 2009

My Chroma #21030869 is on the auction block!

Chris Borman [21030194+]

Chroma sn 21030869 is on Ebay [item #110425296860].

Chris Borman [21030194+]

Goofy - The msg sent itself as soon as I pasted the link. Happens at work a lot to. Never had a chance to finish the msg!

Take a look. One reason I am selling is (other than I don't need two) is to fund development of the Chroma Pressure Sensor I am working on for my other Chroma. If she sells, I will have a CPS kit available in a month or so. Projected cost for the kit is $345. I'll keep you posted on my progress.

Chris Ryan [21030691]

Sold for USD$1324.00.

Chroma on Ebay Germany

Jesper Ödemark [21010135]

[Item #350238555168]

I only just saw it, haven't checked if he mentions any serial...

Chris Ryan [21030691]

This one didn't sell; they were asking €3.499,00.

Frank Hettlich [21030041+]

That dealer (touched-by-sound) is always ridiculously expensive when it comes to vintage gear (like many other dealers as well).

If they want €3.499,00 for a Chroma in that condition my Chromas are worth at least €5000,00...

Generally speaking Chroma prices went considerably up in the last few months (that is what I have noticed). Those prices do better justice to what they are actually capable to do!

Have fun with your Chromas

Chris Ryan [21030691]

That dealer (touched-by-sound) is always ridiculously expensive when it comes to vintage gear ((like many other dealers as well).

They also have a MIDI interface (looks like a Syntech clone) on eBay for €399. Chris Borman [21030194+] mentioned in a post the other day the pedal that has been on eBay for months [see for instance Re: Dual Footswitch on eBay, June]; some times when it doesn't sell, the seller (in this case not TBS) puts the price up.

Generally speaking Chroma prices went considerably up in the last few months (that is what I have noticed). Those prices do better justice to what they are actually capable to do!

There are still deals to be had; if you look at the price history you'll see the last couple of Chroma sales listed were much lower. 21030306 was bought at the Goodwill for USD$29, so it pays to keep your eyes open.

dual foot pedal replacement or fix?

Michael Salmon [21030155]

my pedal is not just worn, but a spring on one simply is broken. Should I just replace it with a smaller one or try and repair it? Either way I plan to keep the original around, but for normal usage I'm thinking the original is getting long in the tooth...suggestions appreciated

Chris Borman [21030194+]

If it just a spring that is broken, go to a hardware store and find one similar enough to replace it. Maybe replace both to keep the tension uniform. The pedal is just two switches with fancy brass actuators on springs. I would replace both switches and springs before getting some extra cheapo plastic dual sw.

What's with the guy on Ebay that keeps listing that pedal for over $500??? Maybe if I was a millionaire and a dufas I'd consider buying it...

Chroma on eBay Canada

Chris Ryan [21030691]

Starting bid USD$1800, no bids yet, ends August 23. From the description: "An easy 9 out of 10 with a few small scratches on the side panels. It would take little effort to make it perfect. The instrument has it's [sic] pedals and a MIDI kit installed by J.L. [21030434+] here in Calgary at CANTOS, factory sounds loaded and it sounds fantastic. ALL controls and panel switches function as designed, the sliders are a little slow and could use some lube or a good cleaning. They don't scratch, but they're sluggish. The keyboard feels like a new one and I suspect that there are very few hours on this Chroma. There are no catalogs, stand, schematics, manuals etc. included."

Seems to be the season to sell Chromas (and Polarii).

Chris Ryan [21030691]

Sold for USD$2052.77.

Dual Voice Board on eBay

Chris Ryan [21030691]

Item #270445484857. 1 bid, USD$79, ends August 25. From the description: "Board looks to be in good condition and appears complete. But I cannot test it and it is thus being sold as-is for parts. Board will only be shipped to a continental US address."

Picture from the auction:

Chris Ryan [21030691]

Sold for USD$128.75.

Introduction

Mini

Hi Chroma talkers,

First of all, I'd like to thank Chris Ryan (again) and the others who've contributed to rhodeschroma.com and this community for providing an incredible resource to Chroma users. We should have more user groups like this.

Some of you may know me for my "day job" dealing in vintage synths. (see the link in my signature). Despite the fact that I've had many examples of most models of vintage synths, I'm quite inexperienced with the Chroma. I've had a non-functional one for many years that was seriously damaged by battery acid before I got it. Our tech has a lot of Chroma experience and says he can fix it but couldn't commit to a price (other than "very costly"), so that one's been sitting for years. Eventually we'll get to it. Since getting that Chroma, I've steered clear of others because I've been afraid they too would have serious battery acid damage.

Well, we recently took another one in. This one was shipped to us in its flight case. We asked the seller to check for acid damage and he said there was none, but when we got it and I popped the hood, not only was there serious acid on the board with the batteries, but the acid has reached as far back as the circuit boards on the PCBs at the back of the unit. To make matters worse, UPS managed to seriously damage this unit (and its case) as well. I'm going to try to get our tech to take a look at it over the next week or 2 and cross my fingers that we can fix it. I'm hopeful because there's hardly a synth he hasn't been able to fix - the question really is, "how much time and money will it take?".

This would probably be a good time to warn people that if you must ship a synth in its flight case, don't put it in a cardboard box like the idiots at UPS did to this one despite the fact that I specifically requested they not box it. If the usual package tossers see a 120 lb cardboard box, they're gonna throw it, drop it, kick it, etc. But if they see a flight case suggesting there's something valuable inside, with actual handles on it that they can grab, chances are they will treat it better.

I suppose that's enough of an intro for now. I'm excited about finally having a working Chroma one day, and hopefully that day will be soon...

Jimmy Moyer [21030184]

Battery damaged CPU boards can be replaced by CC+. Eliminates the batteries forever, an upgrade in many ways and reasonably priced.

Lars Johansson [21030632]

+1

The cost of the CC+ can easily be absorbed by techcosts if there is serious batterydamages.

Which reminds me that I have a CC+ board and a SPSU-kit but no Chroma.

Anyone with a Chroma in need of repair, for sale ?

Lars Johansson [21030632]

Just to clarify,

I am not selling these boards.

If you have a Chroma, working or not. I could be interested.

Possibly trade for some PPG gear.

Tim Siefkes [21030850]

I do have a Chroma in need of repair. Have been planning to get it worked on, but never seem to get a "round tuit". Hmmm... what to do...??? I might be willing to change my mind and let it go... what's a fair exchange rate for a non-working Chroma these days? I know it has some of the foam rot damage on the wood.

Lars Johansson [21030632]

Hi Tim,

it depends.....

What is broken ?

Is it complete with all parts ?

I'd say anything between 500USD and 1500USD.

Chris Ryan [21030691]

The price history may also be of some help.

Tim Siefkes [21030850]

Let me reply more completely when I get home from work and can concentrate on it better. Having trouble recalling right now... it's been a while. I do have all the parts, flight case, Syntech MIDI interface, etc. (as well as the original Apple ][+ interface!)

Lars Johansson [21030632]

Cool !

The Chroma site is without question the best resource page out there.

2nd is the PPG site ( + the CD-Rom )

;)

Mini

Battery damaged CPU boards can be replaced by CC+. Eliminates the batteries forever, an upgrade in many ways and reasonably priced.

Thanks Jim, I took a quick look at it now and will take a closer look later. Looks excellent! :)

Jesper Ödemark [21010135]

I simply love the yellow and red "cards of warning" in the price list! :)

Expander CPU questions

Tom Hughes [21030251+]

Hello Chroma Friends,

I've successfully installed Luca's Chroma PSU kit in my Expander, now for the next problem... The CPU. I thought the original might be salvageable, but upon further inspection we found quite a bit of leaking battery damage eating through traces on the board. I had intended to order a CC+ from David [21030085++] anyway, since the first one I got worked out so well with my Chroma.

Herein lies the dilemma – it looks like the the boards are hardwired to each other, no ribbon cables or connectors. I'm attaching a picture I took so you can see what I mean. I'm wondering if anyone has seen this before. I'm sure the CC+ can be made to work with this, I'm just looking for some recommendations on the best way to proceed.

Andrew Dalebrook [21010180]

Hi

My Chroma also had non-original connectors. I went to put in the CC+ and said "hang on, that doesn't look the picture!" Instead there were standard IDC headers. I removed the ribbon connection from the CC+ (not easy), put a row of header pins in and connected the two boards with a short IDC ribbon cable.

If you couldn't find the original connectors you might ask David to put in IDC pins for you. Then change the Main Board's wiring and connect the two with a short ribbon cable.

WTB : Chroma with problems

Lars Johansson [21030632]

I'd like to buy a broken Chroma.

Preferably in the EU.

Case must be included.

Any condition considered.

Chroma Case and Keyboard on eBay

Chris Ryan [21030691]

Item #190330853777, no bids yet, starting bid USD$250. From the description: "I got this from a music repair shop going out of business. Most of the electronics are gone." Includes: "Complete case with all panels in good shape. All wood pieces look like they were refinished and look ok but not perfect. Complete keyboard with key contact circuit boards. Partial power supply missing transformer and probably some other parts. Complete back panel with all jacks. Pitch bend and modulation controls. Front panel that has some unknown white residue on it. Doesn't seem to come off easily. A dual matching transformer assembly."

Awful Tuning Problems

Paul Tillotson [21030218]

I've been having a lot of tuning problems with my Chroma: first one day on power up all voices failed tuning and at that time I thought it might be the power regulator board and poor Luca was very accommodating in troubleshooting it. The power regular board is back in, I've bought a pretty good quality digital volt meter and the voltage at the TO-220 regulator is at 5.05 and the voltage to the I/O board is at 0. All voices "pass" the tuning procedure both from using autotune or set split 50 but the tuning is always way off. Octave scaling, the tuning of the different cards and even the tuning of the two VCOs within each card is off every time.

I've removed all cards but one, reseated all socketed chips and rechecked voltages many times. Any thoughts as to what the cause might be?

Thanks

Lars Johansson [21030632]

Paul, you write that the voltage to the I/O board is at 0. What do you mean by this ?

Sounds like this might be a problem.

Luca Sasdelli [21010226]

Hi Paul,

it could be a matter of board tuning. When the SPSU is replaced, quite often it was not possible to read the original PSU voltages before its failure, so it could be that original one was unset in respect with docs recommended values.

About I/O board, please be sure the volt meter is on its maximum sensitivity (i.e. minimum end-of-scale voltage), to read even a few millivolts drift.

To tune the voice card, there are two main techniques: one with a scope and another by ear. Although I own an oscilloscope, I prefer the second by far. See Service Manual: Calibration and Checkout: Alternate Trim Procedure.

During the procedure, leave the volt meter connected to TO220 component, to be sure the voltage remains correct all the time. Note: during trimmer adjust, it varies both pitch and waveform at the same time; please DON'T MIND to the note pitch: look to the best square waveform instead ("hollow" sound, due to even-harmonics-only wave).

Luca Sasdelli [21010226]

Paul, you write that the voltage to the I/O board is at 0. What do you mean by this ?

Sounds like this might be a problem.

Surely, Paul means that voltage offset between end points on I/O board is zero.

Luca Sasdelli [21010226]

Er... "test points" instead of "end points", sorry :-)

Paul Tillotson [21030218]

Surely, Paul means that voltage offset between [test] points on I/O board is zero.

Yes, that's what I meant, and I am checking it with the volt meter set at maximum sensitivity so that you practically have to hold your breath while setting to zero so as not throw it off.

Go to next message in thread, September 2009.