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ChromaTalk Archives: May 2010

Re: cc+ software / param sync with BCR2000

David Clarke [21030085++] · Sat, 01 May 2010 14:49:19 -0400

Go to first message in thread, April 2010

From: "Michael Salmon"

I just wanted to follow-up on an idea Matt asked about last year relative to the CC+ [see CC+ & Behringer BCR2000], can CC+ transmit all the values of the chroma on program change?

Michael - the feature isn't there today, but such a change is certainly doable from a technical perspective. The real question (for the CC+ users, in general) is whether this would be perceived to be a useful feature.

Folks - is this something which would have general utility?

I also was wondering would it be possible to rebuild our own cc+ firmware, and worst case if we mess it up recover from a known image?...

I don't think we're quite ready to make the full source available; however, we're always listening to hear if there are features that the community believe should be added (and then to look to implement).

Chris Borman [21030194+] · Sat, 1 May 2010 15:19:08 -0400

How much time does it take to dump an entire patch out the MIDI port?

Eric Inglebert [21030075] · Sat, 1 May 2010 21:52:16 +0200

I don't think we're quite ready to make the full source available; however, we're always listening to hear if there are features that the community believe should be added (and then to look to implement).

=> Yes, different Midi velocity curves, please...

David Clarke [21030085++] · Sat, 01 May 2010 19:34:37 -0400

... How much time does it take to dump an entire patch out the MIDI port?

Let's say 95 parameters.

For a MIDI control change, 2-3 bytes per parameter (depending on whether you have running status or not).

Worst case you'd be looking at about 285 bytes to send.

MIDI runs at 31,250 bits/sec, so if my math is right you'd be looking at under 100mS for the transfer (for each program change).

Related considerations would be whether having a full suite of controllers go out over the MIDI link is going to affect anything else (e.g., what you might want to record, behaviour if the Chroma is the master keyboard, etc.)

Yes, different Midi velocity curves, please...

Do we think we could agree on alternate (static) tables to choose from - or would it be needed to have 'editable' velocity curves? (The current curve has 128 entries in it, and so if it is editable that would be 128 entries for a user to need to set).

Chris Borman [21030194+] · Sat, 1 May 2010 19:42:29 -0400

100ms is not bad. So you twiddle a knob, wait 1/10 of a second then have a capability to see the parameter state before you change it.

Matt Thomas [21010021] · Sun, 02 May 2010 08:19:47 +0100

Obviously I'm still in favour of it :)

Regarding the implementation - after a few months real world experience I think it would be ideal to have these modes

  1. no bulk MIDI cc transmit on program change (i.e. original Chroma)
  2. bulk MIDI cc transmit on program change
  3. manual bulk MIDI cc transmit on button press

Mode 3 is an addition to the original idea - is this feasible David? I'd envisage it being implemented so that when this mode is selected the user can press a particular front panel button (possibly one of the cassette interface buttons, or possibly a 'set split' combination) to trigger the cc transmit.

The main reason for Mode 3 is that the Behringer/Chromatrol uses two programs to hold all the Chroma's parameters, so there's no way for a single cc transmit to update both. A manual button would solve this quandary.

As to demand that's obviously something that others can chip in with, but I think it would enormously enhance the experience of editing the Chroma/CC+ from the Behringer/Chromatrol, the Mackie C4, any of Novation's LED-ring equipped controllers & any multi-touch/iPad control surface apps. I assume it would also lend itself to development of a dedicated Chroma/CC+ software editor should anyone be so minded.

Eric Inglebert [21030075] · Sun, 2 May 2010 09:29:59 +0200

Yes, different Midi velocity curves, please...

Do we think we could agree on alternate (static) tables to choose from - or would it be needed to have 'editable' velocity curves? (The current curve has 128 entries in it, and so if it is editable that would be 128 entries for a user to need to set).

You could have some templates (from very hard to very light with different response shape - log / lin / exp) and 2 user easy editable curves:

  • Graphic-like with 8 break points or so (=8 parameters)
  • Parametric-like with a center point / lower shape (log / lin / exp) / upper shape / lower rate / upper rate (=5 parameters)

Jesper Ödemark [21010135] · Sun, 02 May 2010 10:32:45 +0200

David Clarke skrev:

Do we think we could agree on alternate (static) tables to choose from - or would it be needed to have 'editable' velocity curves? (The current curve has 128 entries in it, and so if it is editable that would be 128 entries for a user to need to set).

I know one of my HD recorders have a set (six?) of standard curves for adding or reducing volume to a track. I imagine something similar. That would meet 99% of the wishes out there I guess. Linear, logarithmic, inverted logarithmic, S-shape and inverted S-shape... something like that. Did I make sense or is it too early in the day? :D

August B. Raring [21010148] · Sun, 2 May 2010 17:29:38 +0200

however, we're always listening to hear if there are features that the community believe should be added (and then to look to implement).

Hello David,

I think all of the suggestions made for new CC+ features are very useful and I'd welcome them too! But most of all I'd appreciate some kind of "lazy button" to set parameters randomly,if it isn't too complex to program!

Chris Borman [21030194+] · Sun, 2 May 2010 11:57:47 -0400

Midiquest has a patch parameter randomize function. You can end up spending a lot of effort pressing that button or tuning what it gave you. I'm pretty inept sometimes starting from scratch, but maybe pick an existing patch as a seed for the randomizer function. That way you will be a little more in the ballpark of what you are hearing, or at least get some inspiration to move forward and try again. Maybe a randomizer function that builds upon its results with a back button? Now the wish list grows... Control over which parameters are included/excluded. Linear, Exponential, Log increments. Move value in a +/- direction, etc.

Chris Smalt [21010280+] · Sun, 2 May 2010 19:00:56 +0200

This is what Opcode's Galaxy librarian used to do. You could also choose two patches, and it would create a bank full of patches gradually morphing from one sound to the other, really cool. I loved that Opcode stuff.

Sandro Sfregola [21010294] · Sun, 2 May 2010 20:44:15 +0200

For editing software or hardware dedicated controllers developers, since CC+ firmware Rev.209 (November 2006), a Sysex feature that allow reading/writing of any "program 0" parameter is available; it is possible to poll the Chroma in order to get a single parameter value, change and resend it to the instrument in only about 10mS.

Look here: The Chroma CPU Plus (CC+): Firmware.

David Clarke [21030085++] · Sun, 02 May 2010 14:59:36 -0400

CC+ potential feature discussion - alternate velocity curves

All - to try to keep our discussions on the different features together, I've created a new subject line for each of the recent discussion points. Some follow-ups are included under each of those titles. The velocity follow-up is below:

You could have some templates ...and 2 user easy editable curves:

  • Graphic-like with 8 break points or so (=8 parameters)
  • Parametric-like with a center point / lower shape log / lin / exp) / upper shape / lower rate / upper rate (=5 parameters)

If we're just talking about the CC+ itself, then the big consideration here is the user-interface.

We still only have the single slider and so editing a user-editable map wouldn't be graphical - instead editing would probably be envisaged to be something like current exists for the MIDI controller map (e.g., Set Split 36 - P19: Edit MCM).

Beyond the user-interface consideration, my general concern is that I think it will be difficult to find curves that are useful. Given that people have shown preferences between the Rev 12 and Rev 14 firmware velocity curves (and there are relatively subtle changes between those), I'd have to expect that wholesale changes (e.g., inverse of current relationship, lin/log, etc.) simply wouldn't ever get used. Even if you have 's-shape' or 'inverted s-shape' ideas - those are still very variable (e.g., how 'fat' are the curves, how deep are the curves, etc.)

My gut feel is that people will really need to be able to experiment with different curves before they even have an idea of what they might like to actually use. I also have the feeling that if they were to use the user-interface on the Chroma to do that then they'd become tired of trying long before they found something they wanted.

Another approach would be to have something like one user-updateable curve in the Chroma - with the idea being that the curve would be edited outside of the Chroma (and perhaps sent to the Chroma via SYSEX). That would then allow someone to write a small graphical curve editor on a computer (for instance), so you could manipulate the curve graphically as you like - and then send the results to the Chroma to try. This could be done iteratively until a preferred curve is found.

If we happened to later find that one or more curves of general interest, then these could be put on the Chroma site as a .syx for anyone to use. If there was general support for one or more of these curves, then perhaps those could consider those later to be permanently resident in the Chroma.

To make something like this viable someone would need to write a small graphics app that would allow the user to manipulate a curve and output the data to a file (e.g., .syx file - which is just a normal binary file with some prefix/postfix data).

David Clarke [21030085++] · Sun, 02 May 2010 15:13:34 -0400

CC+ potential feature discussion - Patch Controller Dump

... I think it would be ideal to have these modes

  1. bulk MIDI cc transmit on program change
  2. manual bulk MIDI cc transmit on button press

It is technically possible to do the dump automatically on program change - or via manual selection (or both/either).

Per the recent discussion though, if one of the main reasons for the feature is to support the Behringer unit - and if that unit will generally require the data to be sent twice anyway - would there still be a need for #2?

One of the things I want to avoid is adding too many features that might have limited usage, as it takes code space away from other things we might like to do, makes things more clutter for the user's who will never need them - as well as increasing the work to implement/test/support.

... I assume it would also lend itself to development of a dedicated Chroma/CC+ software editor should anyone be so minded...

As recently noted by Sandro, all of the parameters can be requested (on a parameter-by-parameter basis) via sysex today, and so a generic capability to support software editors exists today.

The area where this sort of feature would be most useful would be those devices that are based on continuous controllers, and where you need to be able get to snapshot the current full program settings. (I just don't have a good feeling for how many implementations would use this).

As to demand that's obviously something that others can chip in with...

Anybody else have any input (either 'for' or 'against'?)

David Clarke [21030085++] · Sun, 02 May 2010 15:20:34 -0400

CC+ potential feature discussion - Random Patch Generator

As was mentioned in recent postings, in order to make a patch randomize useful (and to end up with patches that actually make 'sound'), you have to have some smarts to be able to meaningfully constrain parameters, or indicate which ones are allowed to change (and by how much).

The more parameters and control you provide the more likely you're going to get useful sounds - but also the more difficult it will to describe the settings via only one data slider. (e.g., if it is overly onerous to use the feature, it won't make any difference how good it does its job - no one will use it. Similarly, if it is easy to use but produces useless patches, it won't get used).

This may be yet another good case where a host-based application may make sense (e.g., a PC or mac application to handle the constraints or morphing or the like) - with the output being able to be auditioned on the Chroma before it is downloaded.

August B. Raring [21010148] · Sun, 2 May 2010 21:48:05 +0200

Re: CC+ potential feature discussion - Random Patch Generator

This may be yet another good case where a host-based application may make sense (e.g., a PC or mac application to handle the constraints or morphing or the like) - with the output being able to be auditioned on the Chroma before it is downloaded.

David, I agree with you that such a function is predestinated for a dedicated host application and as you mentioned a waste of time and space for possible other applications that are more useful!

Chris Smalt [21010280+] · Mon, 3 May 2010 02:03:51 +0200

Yes, different Midi velocity curves, please...

In this day and age, I'd say this can practically always be done by either the receiving sound generator, or the interface or midi sequencer doing the routing.

Michael Salmon [21030155] · Sun, 02 May 2010 20:34:11 -0700

Has anyone used this to sync the bcr2000 (or other controller) with the chroma after a program change without a computer in between? Frankly if there's a controller more compatible i'm not against buying one even though I have the bcr already, whatever works!

Eric Inglebert [21030075] · Mon, 3 May 2010 08:28:28 +0200

In this day and age, I'd say this can practically always be done by either the receiving sound generator, or the interface or midi sequencer doing the routing.

Thanks for the point, but I have to play very hard on my Chroma to get the same velocity response as all my other (plastic touch) synths with mid velocity. How do other members feel their Chroma response compared with other synths?

Michael Salmon [21030155] · Sun, 2 May 2010 23:48:01 -0700

100ms is not bad. So you twiddle a knob, wait 1/10 of a second then have a capability to see the parameter state before you change it.

I don't mind 100ms or even 1000ms, no big deal (assuming the synth still responds to note input in parallel so it's not silent during a program change). to be honest I just don't know how to setup the BCR2000 to pull the data from the CC+ that's all, if anyone can either give a template like Matt did recently, or even some pointers on how to make the BCR2k pull the data from CC+ and update it's encoders that would much appreciated!

Jeffrey D. McEachin [21030073+] · Mon, 03 May 2010 01:32:04 -0700

Re: CC+ potential feature discussion - Random Patch Generator

At 03:20 PM 5/2/2010 -0400, David Clarke wrote:

As was mentioned in recent postings, in order to make a patch randomize useful (and to end up with patches that actually make 'sound'), you have to have some smarts to be able to meaningfully constrain parameters, or indicate which ones are allowed to change (and by how much).

The more parameters and control you provide the more likely you're going to get useful sounds - but also the more difficult it will to describe the settings via only one data slider. (e.g., if it is overly onerous to use the feature, it won't make any difference how good it does its job - no one will use it. Similarly, if it is easy to use but produces useless patches, it won't get used).

This may be yet another good case where a host-based application may make sense (e.g., a PC or mac application to handle the constraints or morphing or the like) - with the output being able to be auditioned on the Chroma before it is downloaded.

I wrote a random patch generator for the Roland Jupiter 6 Europa upgrade, which is somewhat comparable to the CC+. The randomizer is pretty good at coming up with useful sounds. I think every synth should have one built in.

AFAIR, all parameters are randomized, except VCA ENV-2 Level, which is always maximized. Some parameters are more random than others, though. The less random ones have what I believe is a logarithmic weighting towards the "useful" end of the range (something involving random bits and shifting, as I recall, trying to be efficient in 8-bit assembly language). I just used my best judgement to decide which parameters needed to be weighted, and how, and then generated a bunch of test patches to make sure that they were usefully random.

I made sure that it could generate a new patch using a one-handed button combo, so that the other hand could be on the keyboard to audition patches quickly. That makes it easier to find a patch worth tweaking.

It was one of the funner parts of the project, and didn't take long at all to implement. I encourage you to add a random patch generator to the CC+.

Go to next message in thread, June 2010

August B. Raring [21010148] · Mon, 3 May 2010 15:44:34 +0200

Re: CC+ potential feature discussion - alternate velocity curves

Synthwalker wrote:

Thanks for the point, but I have to play very hard on my Chroma to get the same velocity response as all my other (plastic touch) synths with mid velocity. How do other members feel their Chroma response compared with other synths?

The same experience that I made when I installed my new CC+ yesterday! The MIDI-monitor shows a maximum velocity value of only 112 on hardest keystrokes.This is exact the same behavior as my old chromaface did and AFAIR it was caused to be compatible with the DX7 that had a maximum velocity of 100. Is there a possibility to change this to full-range(128) because otherwise the CHROMA isn't very useful as a masterkeyboard?

Anders Elo [21010104] · Mon, 3 May 2010 18:03:02 +0200

Re: CC+ potential feature discussion - alternate velocity curves

Hello list, I had a discussions about the velocity issue several years ago, I think [see low velocity chroma, August 2008]. Since no-one replied (afaik) when I asked about similar symptoms from other chroma users I thought my chroma was unique.

I suspected that perhaps a combination of the newer keyboard scanner routine (which is faster) and the CC+ was not compatible i.e. the CC+ velocity function is suited for the older scanner version (slower code). Probably that combination (slow/cc+) is what most people have in their chromas.

My plan is to downgrade the keyboard scanner software to see if that resolves the problem.

For that I have purchased a programmer but I haven't got hold of the eeproms yet. When I do I'll let you know if it worked.

Sandro Sfregola [21010294] · Tue, 4 May 2010 01:18:23 +0200

Re: CC+ potential feature discussion - alternate velocity curves

The keyscan code is not the "problem"; what you see is the result of a linear curve that translates the internal Chroma levels (0 -> 31) to MIDI levels (0 -> 127) and vice-versa.

Tomorrow I will extrapolate those data tables from the firmware listing to show you the current mapping; a user-mode as indicated by David (upload of curves by sysex) is the way to go, from my point of view, and not difficult to implement.

Anders Elo [21010104] · Tue, 4 May 2010 13:41:11 +0200

Re: CC+ potential feature discussion - alternate velocity curves

On 4 maj 2010, at 01.18, Sandro Sfregola wrote:

The keyscan code is not the "problem";

Then I don't really understand why I got the problem after the CC+ installation.... My assumption was that guicker scanning resulted in larger values/faster that didn't work out with the implementation in the CC+.

what you see is the result of a linear curve that translates the internal Chroma levels (0 -> 31) to MIDI levels (0 -> 127) and vice-versa.

And this could somehow cause problems with maximum velocity around 100 as in my case or is there something else going on with my chroma?

Tomorrow I will extrapolate those data tables from the firmware listing to show you the current mapping; a user-mode as indicated by David (upload of curves by sysex) is the way to go, from my point of view, and not difficult to implement.

gr8, I hope that it brings some light into the issue. :)

Chris Smalt [21010280+] · Tue, 4 May 2010 14:25:25 +0200

I have to play very hard on my Chroma to get the same velocity response as all my other (plastic touch) synths with mid velocity. How do other members feel their Chroma response compared with other synths?

I have two Chromas and never noticed anything unusual about the response. I just checked the velocities in some old sequences recorded with the Chroma (and Syntech midi interface), and they are nicely spread all over the available range. As with any master keyboard, I wouldn't want to hit 127 with regular playing techniques anyways.

Michael Salmon [21030155] · Tue, 04 May 2010 15:38:50 -0700

These two email threads on controller sync and velocity curves seem mixed up btw

Sandro Sfregola [21010294] · Wed, 5 May 2010 22:58:59 +0200

Re: CC+ potential feature discussion - alternate velocity curves

Two data tables are used by the MIDI routines inside the CC+ firmware: one is used to convert Chroma velocity values to MIDI velocity values; the other is used for the opposite function (MIDI to Chroma velocity values).

This is the Chroma to MIDI conversion table:

Chroma MIDI
0 1
1 4
2 8
3 12
4 16
5 20
6 24
7 28
8 32
9 36
10 40
11 44
12 48
13 52
14 56
15 60
16 64
17 68
18 72
19 76
20 80
21 84
22 88
23 92
24 96
25 100
26 104
27 108
28 112
29 116
30 120
31 124

Note that the above table represent a straight linear translation curve. This is the MIDI to Chroma table:

MIDI Chroma
0 0 note: this value is never used as velocity = 0 equals note off message
1 0
2 0
3 0
4 1
5 1
6 1
7 1
8 2
9 2
10 2
11 2
12 3
13 3
14 3
15 3
16 4
17 4
18 4
19 4
20 5
21 5
22 5
23 5
24 6
25 6
26 6
27 6
28 7
29 7
30 7
31 7
32 8
33 8
34 8
35 8
36 9
37 9
38 9
39 9
40 10
41 10
42 10
43 10
44 11
45 11
46 11
47 11
48 12
49 12
50 12
51 12
52 13
53 13
54 13
55 13
56 14
57 14
58 14
59 14
60 15
61 15
62 15
63 15
64 16
65 16
66 16
67 16
68 17
69 17
70 17
71 17
72 18
73 18
74 18
75 18
76 19
77 19
78 19
79 19
80 20
81 20
82 20
83 20
84 21
85 21
86 21
87 21
88 22
89 22
90 22
91 22
92 23
93 23
94 23
95 23
96 24
97 24
98 24
99 24
100 25
101 25
102 25
103 25
104 26
105 26
106 26
107 26
108 27
109 27
110 27
111 27
112 28
113 28
114 28
115 28
116 29
117 29
118 29
119 29
120 30
121 30
122 30
123 30
124 31
125 31
126 31
127 31

The above table is constructed in such a way that it is complementary to the other: this way, when the Chroma is recorded on a MIDI sequencer, or played by a MIDI feed-back (local off mode, MIDI output rerouted to MIDI input) the touch response is the same of the Chroma alone.

Anders, please let me know more of your MIDI related problem and which MIDI interface you used previously of the CC+ installation.

Please note that the keyboard velocity table used in the CC+ firmware is that of the original Rev.12 firmware while the rest of the code is built on the Rev.14.

August B. Raring [21010148] · Thu, 6 May 2010 18:23:24 +0200

Re: CC+ potential feature discussion - alternate velocity curves

The maximum MIDI-velocity I get from my CHROMA is "112" both from CC+ and Cooper Chromaface. The keyscan firmware is REV 2. What might be wrong?

Eric Inglebert [21030075] · Fri, 7 May 2010 22:59:42 +0200

Re: CC+ potential feature discussion - alternate velocity curves

Same for me (using CC+ and Syntech interface). And I have to play very very hard to reach 112. Plus the velocity seems to "jump" from 100 to 112. My CC+ Rev is 211.

David Clarke [21030085++] · Fri, 07 May 2010 19:49:54 -0400

Re: CC+ potential feature discussion - alternate velocity curves

Just to clarify - with regard to the discussion on velocity response and curves, is the main concern how the Chroma behaves with MIDI, locally or both?

e.g., is it thought that the Chroma's internal sounds are OK (in terms of velocity), and it is just the behaviour when using the Chroma with MIDI - or is it also thought that the local behaviour of the Chroma is also less than optimal?

Dave Bradley [16330135] · Fri, 7 May 2010 20:44:44 -0500

Re: CC+ potential feature discussion - alternate velocity curves

Well I for one would much rather have 128 rather than 32 internal velocity levels.

Dave Bradley [16330135] · Fri, 7 May 2010 20:47:04 -0500

Re: CC+ potential feature discussion - alternate velocity curves

And increase the resonance levels too!

Tom Moravansky [21030431] · Fri, 7 May 2010 21:50:11 -0400

Re: CC+ potential feature discussion - alternate velocity curves

without rewiring the bus to the voice cards (or multiplexing the data somehow) I don't think it can be done. There's not enough physical lines running to the cards for resonance to be more than 7 values.

See Increasing resonance resolution below.

August B. Raring [21010148] · Sat, 8 May 2010 13:07:40 +0200

Re: CC+ potential feature discussion - alternate velocity curves

e.g., is it thought that the Chroma's internal sounds are OK (in terms of velocity), and - or is it also thought that the local behaviour of the Chroma is also less than optimal.

it is just the behaviour when using the Chroma with MIDI !

Norman Fay · Sat, 8 May 2010 12:16:45 +0100

Re: CC+ potential feature discussion - alternate velocity curves

I'm quite happy with the velocity implementation both locally and over MIDI. Maybe I've just got used to it - it was the first velocity-sensitive instrument I owned, and it's still my main controller keyboard for playing MIDI parts into the sequencer.

The main thing I would like to see would be to have the second AD/AR envelope on each voice channel made loopable. Maybe have the delay time on that envelope set so that there's an extra value above maximum that switches it to loop mode. that would be cool.

Heinz Weierhorst [21010276] · Sat, 8 May 2010 14:17:14 +0200

Re: CC+ potential feature discussion - alternate velocity curves

Hi all.

There is one way to do that, because Strobe 3 on the channel motherboards is unused. With a latch clocked by strobe 3 you will have six additional bits for free use. On hardware level it's simple to do - but the software is the main part.

Chris Smalt [21010280+] · Sun, 9 May 2010 03:24:22 +0200

Re: CC+ potential feature discussion - alternate velocity curves

e.g., is it thought that the Chroma's internal sounds are OK (in terms of velocity), and it is just the behaviour when using the Chroma with MIDI - or is it also thought that the local behaviour of the Chroma is also less than optimal?

To me, the Chroma's local response defines velocity sensitivity - it's perfect. A nice touch is that you can depress a key every so slowly and get no sound at all, as with a real piano. When using it with the Syntech midi interface, it's fine for me - I do get 127 as maximum level when I pound it, and a nice dynamic range.

Eric Inglebert [21030075] · Sun, 9 May 2010 11:26:14 +0200

Re: CC+ potential feature discussion - alternate velocity curves

My Chroma internal response is also perfect.

That's why we may need 2 different curves, transmit AND receive, which should be interesting for Expander only users.

Patches by David Hobson

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Sat, 1 May 2010 12:29:01 -0700

This month's site update is a bank of fifty patches by David Hobson [21030506]. I haven't yet had a chance to load them, but David is a long time Chroma owner so I'm sure they're worth checking out. Thanks, David!

Dual footswitch leaf switches

Mark Smith [2103-PT-002] · Wed, 5 May 2010 01:58:17 +0000

Hi -

Does anyone know a part number and supplier for the dual footswitch leaf switches?

Chris Borman [21030194+] · Tue, 4 May 2010 22:12:57 -0400

Of Cours.... [eBay item #290423018218]

This eBay item is a Chroma dual footswitch which has been mentioned on the list several times; the seller is currently asking £500—as much as some Chromas sell for. Needless to say, though being relisted a number of times, the item never sells. Here are a couple of pictures from the auction.

Chroma for Sale

Patrik Gudmundsäter [21010240] · Wed, 5 May 2010 20:26:06 +0200

Nice Chroma for Sale! Thinking of selling our Chroma 21010240 complete with anvil case, dual pedal, single pedal. Also a MIDI interface built into it. You don't need any extra power supply. Sold New in Sweden.

It also has the Luca Sasdelli [21010226] Switched New type of Power Supply. All the Keys, switches etc work 100%

It sounds amazing!

Serious offers over 4.500 Euros. It can also be financed for our Swedish Customers. Checking the interest here first.

[Contact information removed.]

Re: Expander on eBay Australia

Go to first message in thread, April 2010

Matt · Sat, 8 May 2010 19:00:52 +1000

still waiting for feedback to be posted before I believe someone paid this much for it.. nothing as yet..

Sale confirmed in a private email to me, April 2012—Chris

Re: Chromatrol for Behringer B-Control

Go to first message in thread, February 2010

Luca Sasdelli [21010226] · Sat, 08 May 2010 11:35:06 +0200

Just a note to anyone doing this project, you will need to put the B Control into one of Global Midi Standalone Modes for it to work with the Chroma and to receive the Editor Profile sys ex file it seems.

I used a 3M spray adhesive made for specifically for photo paper to glue down the template pieces. $4.99 a can at Home Depot in the US. Be very careful when spraying the back not to spray too much adhesive, it can get messy and you have to work quick.

Matt, can you please explain how the Pitch and Volume switches correspond to the editor, just to clarify ?

This will work very nicely until the Enabler is ready.

Hi Matt,

I've bought a used BCR2000 and I'm trying to put the whole stuff into work. Unfortunately I don't own the user manual and on the Behringer website there are only two short complement pdf docs.

What do you mean as Global Midi Standalone mode? E.g. S-1, S-2, S-3 or S-4?

I've downloaded your sysex files to BCR2000 using MIDIOX (Windows) and the download went okay. I've stored them under two presets. Now the trouble: when varying BCR2000 values, only some of them does transmit data over MIDI (referring to both LEDs on BCR2000 and Chroma CC+ MIDI interface) and those data appear as messed up, i.e. they doesn't operate on selected parameter, but they vary some other values in uncontrolled mode instead.

By trying to use the Learn mode, BCR2000 confirms with a "Good" acknowledge, but the data doesn't reflect those actually sent with Parameter slider on Chroma.

The BCR2000 firmware is 1.10.

What do you suggest to help me?

David Clarke [21030085++] · Sat, 08 May 2010 11:35:33 -0400

... Now the trouble: when varying BCR2000 values, only some of them does transmit data over MIDI (referring to both LEDs on BCR2000 and Chroma CC+ MIDI interface) and those data appear as messed up...

Luca - if we assume that all the programming is OK then the issue could be how the CC+ controllers are set up.

Specifically - the default shipping condition of the CC+ is to use MIDI CC's in 'emulation' mode, which makes them match the Syntech MIDI interface.

If you want to be able to control all of the parameters, then it is the 'expanded' MIDI Controllers Map that you'll need.

That would mean entering [Set Split][36], choosing P18, and then selecting "Cust" (vs. "Cult"). [xref: Chroma CPU Plus User's Guide: Configuration Interface & MIDI Support]

Making this change will allow all parameters in the Chroma to be addressable via MIDI CCs.

Luca Sasdelli [21010226] · Sat, 08 May 2010 18:31:05 +0200

Excellent David! That was the right fix for me :)

In the meantime I've looked at some BCR2000 resources and found a dedicated page then I've chosen a very, very powerful editor for it.

Apart from the horrible and buggy Behringer's BCEdit Java editor, left at beta stage and never updated, the BC Manager is a currently maintained product, it does tons of tasks, from a complete controller overview, down to single byte level. It does support comments too, making the BCR2000 programming very easy. There is also a print-strip function to print label for the controller (nothing to do with the excellent Matt' ones...).

I think a donation to the author is highly recommended.

I've rewritten Chromatrol SysEx files, by adding some comments to items and... by rewriting the PanelB file, because it did use the same CCs as the PanelA one, thus addressing only A-related parameters <grin>.

Should anyone need those files, please drop me a line.

Michael Salmon [21030155] · Sat, 08 May 2010 15:50:19 -0700

I would love example bcr2000 files :)

Alos were you able to get the leds to sync with the chroma parameters after a program change?

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Sat, 8 May 2010 15:53:11 -0700

Luca, if you send them to me I'll post them on the Chromatrol page.

A mechanically simpler knob interface for a Chroma

Daniel Benoit [21030109] · Sat, 08 May 2010 01:15:06 -0400

This is my idea of what could be a practical tactile interface to make a Virtual Midiknob controller for a Chroma... it's not that cheap, (but cheaper then building a hardware device) it doesn't exist yet but it takes the advantage of the new technology to help the old... and will fit neatly on top of the chroma

First:

  1. Buy a iPad... (about $500.00)
  2. Buy a MIDI Mobilizer from Line6 (about $69.00)
  3. Hope and wait for a generous chroma adept to program the (ipodtouch/ipad) application... that will make use of the touch screen and dynamic interface that a Ipad touch screen can offer...

Meanwhile one can always use the Ipad for other purposes

Michael Zacherl [21030253] · Sat, 8 May 2010 13:14:28 +0200

  1. Buy a MIDI Mobilizer from Line6 (about $69.00)

Granted, MIDI is already there but I'd love to see an OSC implementation for the Chroma. It would serve the Chroma's powerful engine much better than this very limited, ancient protocol. Quite some effort would be necessary but IMHO _that_ also would be trend-setting! ;-)

And you could spare this wiggly tiny MIDI-interfaces and use Wi-Fi instead.

but it takes the advantage of the new technology to help the old... and will fit neatly on top of the chroma

MIDI's not new ;-) SCNR

Just my 0.5 c, Michael.

Daniel Benoit [21030109] · Sat, 08 May 2010 10:04:44 -0400

I'm trying to find a "tcp/ip to midi" adapter that could connect to directly to the Chroma, this way the Chroma could be seen as a "ip" device. The next this would be to seput some implementation of "Midi over ip" (which is more and more being the next trend in the long evolution of midi).

There are some DIY projects that I found that use the Pic or Arduino microcontrolers... to build a TCP/ip to (something) interface. But there is no official definition, IpMidi/NetMidi and midiOverLan are some of the contenders for it.

It would be nice to see some kind of standard network midi protocol. and have it officialized by the IMA/MMA

MIDI's not new ;-) SCNR

Just my 0.5 c, Michael.

I know I was there when is came out... I was referring to the Ipad..

Matrix [21030220] · Sat, 8 May 2010 07:26:49 -0700

There is iConnectmidi if it ever comes out and if it actually works

Line 6 currently only records and plays back, meaning you can't yet use it for realtime control. Akais synth station might work.

If you don't mind having a Mac as the interface with the iPad as a wireless remote to it, you could make something work right now with TouchOSC.

Daniel Benoit [21030109] · Sat, 08 May 2010 20:26:00 -0400

Mmmm! it already does more the record an playback...

I think that all of this will develop in a matter of weeks/months as this product or the IconnectMidi are nothing more then Midi I/Os for the Ipods. I personally prefers Line6' product price and availability Apps are going to come out and this is good for us.

Voice Board Repair

Patrik Gudmundsäter [21010240] · Sun, 9 May 2010 20:02:09 +0200

Is there a possibillity to get a voice board checked, or repaired. I have a one that seems to be giving error4 sometimes. I moved it, and you get error5 etc. Or have somebody one to sell?

Eric Inglebert [21030075] · Sun, 9 May 2010 22:58:19 +0200

You should first try to (have somebody) replace those 3 4051/4556 chips on the channel board (Z19, Z20 and Z25 - see Hardware Fault Diagnosis & Repair: Repairing Faulty Voice Boards).

Increasing resonance resolution

Leonardo Ascarrunz [no serial number] · Mon, 10 May 2010 11:43:00 -0600

Would anyone be interested in modifying the voiceboards to increase the resonance resolution? There is an unused strobe available that can be used to latch in an extra 6bits of data. I can design a small board that would replace z28 and add 5bits of resonance data. You would only need to make 2 additional connections. However i am unfamiliar with the firmare so would need help modifying it to support the changes made to the hardware.

Heinz Weierhorst [21010276] · Mon, 10 May 2010 20:58:33 +0200

Hi.

You don't need to replace Z28 but add on a six bit latch and four resistors preferable SMD components, to keep the PCB small.

The remaining two bits could make my dream true: Two additional filter modes Bandpass and Allpass. A 4053 CMOS switch will do that.

But as you pointed out, the firmware update is the is the problem.

Sandro Sfregola [21010294] · Mon, 10 May 2010 23:21:39 +0200

In the original data structure that defines a program, there are only few unused bits available for additional data storage; from a practical point of view, only 4 additional bits per filter would be manageable in the firmware; this wouldn't bad at all: 3+4 = 7 bits = 128 resonance levels, as in all the Roland analog I've had. Anyway, I think that modifying the voice boards would be difficult for the majority of the users; maybe it is better to wait for the C2 ;-)

Dave Bradley [16330135] · Mon, 10 May 2010 16:26:56 -0500

It might be easier to wait for the C2 if we knew what the C2 is supposed to be!

  • a whole new synth?
  • enhanced voice cards that plug into the chroma bus?

Enquiring minds want to know.

Tom Hughes [21030251+] · Mon, 10 May 2010 17:34:44 -0400

I agree. Time to spill the beans :-)

August B. Raring [21010148] · Tue, 11 May 2010 19:27:12 +0200

More information, please!

Switching Power Supply Unit

David Hobson [21030506] · Tue, 11 May 2010 20:16:34 -0500

Hello,

I am a rhodes Chroma owner without any electronic experience...I was hoping I could pay someone in the Chroma directory to build a new PSU for my chroma. I would buy all the parts needed and send them away to someone who has had good luck fixing their own PSU and that can do mine as well.

Thank you for your time and and any assistance you can provide.

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Tue, 11 May 2010 19:26:44 -0700

See Switching Power Supply Unit Replacement Kit.

Luca Sasdelli [21010226] · Wed, 12 May 2010 05:20:05 +0200

Hi David,

I produce a SPSU kit for Rhodes Chroma. It has been designed to make its replacement as easy as possible: it requires only a few solderings on the AC plug and power switch, and all connections are identical as per the original PSU.

You can contact me for further details

David Hobson [21030506] · Wed, 12 May 2010 10:22:59 -0500

Thank you for your reply,

Once again I did not search the site completely to find this information...but I will place an order very soon...thanks again for your reply and posting the info on the Rhodes Chroma site.

Patrik Gudmundsäter [21010240] · Wed, 12 May 2010 19:06:13 +0200

I can only testify that Mr Luca Sasdelli's SPSU Unit works wery well indeed, after it has been properly installed.

It surely makes the Chroma work better, and you also lose a lot of weight.

email change

Leonardo Ascarrunz [no serial number] · Wed, 12 May 2010 18:58:00 -0600

Hi, can you please change my list email address to [address removed].

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Wed, 12 May 2010 18:02:48 -0700

Done. For future reference, and as a reminder to all, you can manage your subscriptions from the link at the bottom of the list emails.

Help!

Mark Smith [2103-PT-002] · Fri, 14 May 2010 01:07:28 +0000

My Chroma with switching power supply and Luca pc board just died and stinks. Does anyoone know of a repair place in the Portland, OR area?

Leonardo Ascarrunz [no serial number] · Thu, 13 May 2010 19:43:03 -0600

That really does suck. Any idea what might be the problem?

Robb Witt · Thu, 13 May 2010 19:08:05 -0700

Mark –

Bad juju! I can't offer help but if anybody deserves a working unit, y'all be high on the list. Sending good vibes.

BTW I'd be suspecting some sort of blown cap because of the smell. Smoke?

Jeffrey D. McEachin [21030073+] · Fri, 14 May 2010 00:05:27 -0700

Does anyoone know of a repair place in the Portland, OR area?

Larry Church used to be the go-to guy. Looks like he he may still be doing some repair.

Good luck!

Luca Sasdelli [21010226] · Fri, 14 May 2010 11:13:14 +0200

Hi Mark,

could you please state if the fault is on the SPSU or the PCB? About the SPSU, this is in warranty period, even if the ship to USA exceeds its cost... About the PCB, should be this the fault, please send me it back and I'll replace it with a new one.

Luca Sasdelli [21010226] · Fri, 14 May 2010 18:33:58 +0200

Hi Mark,

can you identify if the fault appears on SPSU or PCB? Should be the SPSU unit, we can ask for a warranty replacement (even if the failed unit ship cost would be more than the unit itself...).

Awaiting your news

Mark Smith [2103-PT-002] · Sat, 15 May 2010 20:30:27 +0000

Hi -

I looked at the power supply ouputs with the PCB connected. There was no -12. +12 and +5 kept coming on and off at about the rate of a reset but shutdown again after three cycles. Then turned on again. This kept repeating. The PCB has no visible burn evidence. I disconnected the PCB and measured the volltages on the supply again.-12, +12, +5 were all present and stable.

Mark Smith [2103-PT-002] · Sat, 15 May 2010 20:47:03 +0000

Then I tried disconnecting the four power cables from the board and reconnected the board to the power supply. Power on. The power supply was stable and +12, +5 were normal. -12 read +8.

Mark Smith [2103-PT-002] · Sat, 15 May 2010 20:57:39 +0000

I made a mistake - I didn't really disonnect the -12 and ground from the EQ board. I did try disconnecting it and the -12 voltage read normal! Looks like it's on the EQ board

Jesper Ödemark [21010135] · Sat, 15 May 2010 23:04:19 +0200

So, if it's fried beyond repair, pick up the EQ board on german Ebay. :)

I hope you'll sort it out!

Mark Smith [2103-PT-002] · Sat, 15 May 2010 21:36:46 +0000

What luck! I've got a bid on it. I have to ask. Does anyone have a working EQ board they would to sell?

Heinz Weierhorst [21010276] · Sun, 16 May 2010 18:38:53 +0200

Hi Mark.

First check out that P19 is in the right position. The brown wire is pin 1 and should show to a little dot on the PCB at J19 or to the left side of the Chroma. Next remove P4 and with a DVM in position OHMS measure the resistance from +12 and -12 to output ground or the rear panel. It should be a few kiloohms for both. If much below check C1 and C2, 10uF/16V. If o.k. you have an failed Opamp, Ota or a transistor in balanced output circuit. That's a lot of work, because you have to remove them piece by piece. See the EQ-boards schematic for that. The opamps Z3 and Z4 and may be Z5 should be replaced by low noise Fet types like TL072 or better.

Mark Smith [2103-PT-002] · Mon, 17 May 2010 22:12:55 +0000

The Chroma lives! The Chroma lives!

I found an undocumented breath controller modification that got its power from the EQ board. I unmounted the left cheekblock where the BC input was mounted. There was a tiny pc board with a blackened, split 8 pin ic chip. I don't know what was. If I publish a schematic, maybe someone can figure it out. I know we used a lot of 4558s in those days. So, I disconnected the board, replaced the EQ board and powered it up. Nothing. I power cycled it again. AUTOTUNE!!!

Thanks to all on the list who helped me out. The Chromatalk saves me again.

Luca Sasdelli [21010226] · Tue, 18 May 2010 04:09:29 +0200

Hi Mark,

I'm glad you solved the fault.

A question: where did you buy the SPSU kit from? I can't find neither your name nor your email from my customers.

Jesper Ödemark [21010135] · Tue, 18 May 2010 10:20:01 +0200

MARK L SMITH skrev:

The Chroma lives! The Chroma lives!

Thanks to all on the list who helped me out. The Chromatalk saves me again.

Great news - congratulations!

On the other hand, a breath controller was a pretty cool mod. I've tested to use breath controller through the midi in at the Chroma and it's great.

Bruce Sklar [21030660] · Tue, 18 May 2010 05:45:27 -0400

I purchased a BC mod from Chroma Cult in the mid 80s for 50 bucks. I never put it in. It does have a tiny little circuit board. I think I shall leave it on the shelf....

Lars Johansson [21030632] · Tue, 18 May 2010 11:48:58 +0200

Take detailed photos of it and send to Chris !

Bruce Sklar [21030660] · Tue, 18 May 2010 07:41:54 -0400

Will do- I'll have to find it first

Sick Chroma

Werner Schöenenberger [21010114] · Sat, 15 May 2010 09:01:36 +0200

Hi list,

after a longer period of silence from my side on the list, I return together with the sick Chroma of a friend of mine [21030686]. Before digging into the depth, I like to ask the community about some hints or ideas for fixing the buddy.

The Chroma has the new PSU and the CC+ board installed.

  1. After power up, all voices are switched on and will decay with a long release phase. After the release, nothing can be triggered anymore. I.E. Pressing the keyboard does not lead to any effect.
  2. the display flickers in a frequency of about 4 Hz. This seems to me rather slow. It looks like a toggling between parameter and program display

Maybe both effects base on the same issue. Any suggestions will be highly appreciated.

David Clarke [21030085++] · Sat, 15 May 2010 09:02:59 -0400

Werner - a few idea:
  1. You can use [Set Split][37] to go into voice-watch mode. This should let you know if the keys are successfully being actioned (even if you don't hear any audio).
    1. If you can't see keys being pressed - but the buttons still are functional, go into CC+ Programming Mode ([Set Split][36]) and check the Panel mode (P22). If this is set to 'Pndr' vs. 'Chro' then the keyboard is turned off (since the Expander doesn't have one).
    2. By a similar token, check [Set Split][36] P17 (Local On/Local Off) to ensure that it is set to 'On' (to allow the keyboard Local Control of the Chroma).
  3. If voice-watch mode allowed you to see keys being pressed, but you had no audio, set up a Scratch Patch with [Set Split][39]. If you have audio with it, then the issue could just be that the patches which are present won't sound.
  4. Watch the LED windows. If there's a button on the panel which is toggling (e.g., effectively pressing itself), you should see the displays change in response (for instance - the small LED window might change from "P29 4" to "P12 3" - indicating that the chroma thinks that either P29 or P12 is being pressed. If it does look like it is going between the Parameter and Program display (e.g., the Param Select and Prog Select LEDs on the panel are togging), then one of those two buttons may be triggering themselves (exercising the buttons may help to address that).
  5. "After power up, all voices are switched on ..." An important observation on this element will be whether the LEDs all flash during power up - as normally would occur for auto-tune - or if it appears that the system 'just starts up' without going through the auto-tune. Also important will be when the voices sounds (relative to the auto-tune).

Werner Schöenenberger [21010114] · Sat, 15 May 2010 16:26:41 +0200

Hi David,

thank you so much for the hints. I just started to try your tips and found out that the [Set Split] functions do not work at all. None of the functions work. So my thoughts are the following:

  • When powering up, the system does the Auto Tune (flashing all the LEDs) and just after that starts sound with all voice boards.
  • After the release phase nothing can be heard again
  • I can execute a further Auto Tune but then after the procedure the "all sound" does not occur
  • All buttons work except the [Set Split]

So I assume an error in the keyboard scan part which produces faulty signals. This might be the reason to not be able to enter the [Set Split] mode since just right after pressing the button, some crazy key information arrive and set a crazy split point.

So I had a look at the interrupt input of the keyboard scan processor (8039) and found a lot of traffic even when no key is pressed. This sounds strange. Currently I found some strange behavior in the 74LS175 (Z35) lines since one of the address lines (pin 15) shows some strange strobes compared with the other outputs (pins 2,7,10). I also cannot measure any incoming key signals at Z34 (LS244 - pins 2,4,6,8,11,13,15,17) which seems to be strange too. On the other hand, RD, ALE and _PSEN_ of Z31 (8039) seem to be correct. So at this point, I suppose a defect LS244 or/and LS175, where my focus is on the LS244, since it seems that a lot of keyboard signals are produced even if no key is pressed. Ok, the LS373 might be an issue to...

Due to lack of the components, I cannot proceed at the moment. But anyway, whenever I (hopefully) succeed in fixing the synth, I will let you know.

BTW: one board as well as the equalizer is "ill" too. Some work will still remain...

EQ board on german ebay

Jesper Ödemark [21010135] · Sat, 15 May 2010 21:10:07 +0200

[Item #120570291594]

Known Chroma?

From the item description: "Rhodes Chroma equalizer board. The board was removed from my Chroma because the pots are a bit noisy. They can be cleaned up or replaced. Otherwise it was working just fine. This part can be used in your Chroma, or you might want to use it for anything else. There are two dual-VCA curtis chips on it - CEM 3360." Pictures from the auction:

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Sat, 15 May 2010 12:29:20 -0700

Looking at the eBay user name (pavlas123), it might be Martin Pavlas [21030450].

Jesper Ödemark [21010135] · Sat, 15 May 2010 22:02:28 +0200

Sure looks like it... I wonder if he's bypassing the EQ altogether.

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Sat, 15 May 2010 13:05:33 -0700

He's on the list. Martin?

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Sun, 23 May 2010 13:31:47 -0700

Sold for €69.

CEM3374 Dual VCO chips available

Doug Terrebonne [21030114] · Tue, 18 May 2010 17:14:39 -0700

Hi, for those with a Polaris, I have a few CEM3374s in stock (first time in many years).

Chroma Dual Footswitch

Mark Smith [2103-PT-002] · Thu, 20 May 2010 01:00:01 +0000

Hi -

I've put a Dual foot switch on eBay for $175 in excellent condition. [eBay item #260606250676.]

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Wed, 19 May 2010 22:24:47 -0700

Excellent shot of your toe, Mark. :)

One of the pictures from the auction:

Chris Smalt [21010280+] · Thu, 20 May 2010 16:38:41 +0200

Yeah! Isn't it illegal in the US to sell body parts on eBay?

Error 45

Patrik Gudmundsäter [21010240] · Thu, 20 May 2010 19:02:43 +0200

What does Error 45 mean?

Leonardo Ascarrunz [no serial number] · Thu, 20 May 2010 11:22:45 -0600

Error 45 means that voice cards 4 and 5 are not tuning properly.

Dave Bradley [16330135] · Thu, 20 May 2010 13:26:56 -0500

It means that voices 4 and 5 failed to pass the tuning test.

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Thu, 20 May 2010 22:06:39 -0700

See Performance Manual: Diagnostics - Error Messages.

Patrik Gudmundsäter [21010240] · Fri, 21 May 2010 19:11:37 +0200

OK, Thanks! First it was just Number 4, and after I changed places 4 and 5? I have to get this issue sorted in some way.

Leonardo Ascarrunz [no serial number] · Fri, 21 May 2010 11:26:40 -0600

Try re-seating the voice cards and something may have gotten knocked out of place during your move.

Jesper Ödemark [21010135] · Sun, 23 May 2010 11:19:08 +0200

Patrik Gudmundsäter skrev:

OK, Thanks! First it was just Number 4, and after I changed places 4 and 5? I have to get this issue sorted in some way.

Autotune only works if the cards are reasonably in tune and if the voltage feed is stable and nice. Before changing my PSU they flicked off and on and was randomized with each restart. Nowadays I may lose one voice when the studio temperature passes 35 degrees Celsius or so. I can live with that.

Go to next message in thread, June 2010.

Chroma on German eBay

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Tue, 25 May 2010 18:58:11 -0700

Item #280510432439, €3,895.00. Looks to be in decent cosmetic condition, but there doesn't seem to be any information other than 'very good condition.' Appears to have a MIDI interface (EES?) mounted to the right of the keyboard. Performance Manual, (spiral-bound, which I don't think I've seen before) can be seen in some shots. I've asked the seller for the serial number.

Pictures from the auction:

Jesper Ödemark [21010135] · Wed, 26 May 2010 10:04:54 +0200

As I recall it, my manual is also spiral bound. The midi interface doesn't look like EES to me. But there may be different incarnations.

August B. Raring [21010148] · Wed, 26 May 2010 12:04:43 +0200

There is a small sticker besides the S/N-plate that is as far I know from the German company "touched-by-sound". They also produced MIDI-interfaces and I suppose it is the CHROMA they sold a couple of months ago for about 3000.00 EURO.

Chris Smalt [21010280+] · Wed, 26 May 2010 16:48:57 +0200

As I recall it, my manual is also spiral bound.

So were both of mine - might have been a European way of cutting cost.

Jesper Ödemark [21010135] · Wed, 26 May 2010 21:27:04 +0200

Yes, maybe... on the other hand, the german translated manual is a crappy xerox, so there are levels in hell too. :D

a few issues

Matt Hillier [21010094+] · Wed, 26 May 2010 09:35:18 +0000

can anyone point me in the direction to fix couple of issues that seem to be happening to the chroma i have here, one's a single key doesnt seem to be working, a few others seemed to be the same on and off but with some playing these seem to be working now but ones definately not, i wonder if some dust when shipping this to me may have caused this as they keys were all working before shipment, the second is that membranes 46 / 47 / 48 / 49 don't seem to want to work. 50 does, 46 brings up a 'pr' on the readout and the rest just dont seem to work or latch the patch number. Any advice on what these issues coule be? i am pondering opening up but i thought i better get some expert advice first!

Paul Hackett-Evans [21010094] · Wed, 26 May 2010 13:17:06 +0100

Hi Matt,

The issue with membranes 46-50 us a normal function of the Chroma Cult MIDI converter. It uses those membranes for it's programming functions. Check out the MIDIconverter manual for more info on this

You can still use the memory slots 46-50 for program memories but to access them you either need to have the MIDIconverter unplugged or simply use SoundDiver, as I did.

I never had any problems with keys not triggering, you may be right about dust possibly entering the leaf switch in transit. The leaves are very open, so dirt can get in, but the Chroma was kept covered under a cloth all the time, so there wasn't much opportunity for dirt to get near it at home.

Another possibility is that, since the Chroma has had extremely minimal use in the last 5 years, and none at all for several years before the restoration, the leaves may possibly the leaf benefit from a clean using switch cleaner. Or even a VERY fine grain abrasive. Normal use can keep the contacts in the leaves bright and clean. If you need to use switch cleaner, you might find that a cotton pipe-cleaner is useful to apply it without putting any pressure on the leaves.

See if that helps.

Chris Smalt [21010280+] · Wed, 26 May 2010 18:01:40 +0200

a few issues - OT

[snip long text]

Sent from my iPhone

I'm impressed, Paul! You're a master on the iPhone keyboard. :-)

Paul DeRocco [21030230] · Wed, 26 May 2010 09:29:08 -0700

can anyone point me in the direction to fix couple of issues that seem to be happening to the chroma i have here, one's a single key doesnt seem to be working, a few others seemed to be the same on and off but with some playing these seem to be working now but ones definately not, i wonder if some dust when shipping this to me may have caused this as they keys were all working before shipment

What usually goes wrong with leaf switches is that airborne contaminants settle on the contacts, but these can usually be worked out merely by playing the key over and over, since the contacts have a natural wiping action. But if that doesn't work, it's also pretty easy to clean the contacts of the nonfunctional switch. I'd suggest taking a sliver of paper, wetting it with alcohol, and sliding it back and forth between the contacts when they're lightly closed. Don't use paper towels—you don't want to leave behind frizz from the paper that may work itself into a position where it again prevents the contacts from touching. An even better material might be some narrow cloth ribbon, with no frayed edges.

Matt Hillier [21010094+] · Wed, 26 May 2010 17:47:56 +0000

many thanks for all the info paul and others, the 46 / 50 membrane issue is stupidity on my part, with the in midi interface disconnected it's fine, the dodgy key i simply cleaned a bit and hey presto, i can see that these are probably prone to needing cleaning after shipping etc but its one of the easiest synth jobs ive ever done, 2 minutes and it was sorted. Thanks for the excellent support guys...

Paul Hackett-Evans [21010094] · Wed, 26 May 2010 22:47:12 +0100

Re: a few issues - OT

I'm impressed, Paul! You're a master on the iPhone keyboard. :-)

Thanks Chris!!

Would you believe I was cooking pasta and making coffee at the same time I typed that message??!!!!

I was!!

.........

By the way - yes, it's true! My Chroma 0094 is now in the possession of Matt Ishq [Hillier].

I came to the realisation that in five years, I'd barely played it more than a handful of times. It was becoming an heirloom, under covers and in storage, rather than the living, breathing instrument it should be.

I was enjoying more time with my kids and less on individual pursuits like music. Amongst other things, I wanted to buy a new sports convertible in which my kids and I can travel, see more of Europe and have adventures to remember for all their lives, while they're still young enough for such things to be magical.

So when Matt posted his request for anyone who might sell him a Chroma, I talked it over with my wife and family and decided it should go to a new home where it will be loved AND played, and I could put the proceeds towards my car.

I won't lose interest in the Chroma - Pete has yet to restore his Chroma, and I'll help. And I'll stay on the egroup because it means a lot to me, and you guys are friends of mine!!

Also, I'm friends with Roy Paynter and am happy to put people in touch with him if they need Chroma service in the UK.

And... I'll be sure to visit my Chroma at Matt's occasionally too!!!

Staying in touch...!!!!

David Clarke [21030085++] · Wed, 26 May 2010 19:25:26 -0400

... The issue with membranes 46-50 us a normal function of the Chroma Cult MIDI converter. It uses those membranes for it's programming functions...

Following up on this point, per the 'Special Functions' section of the Chroma Cult/Syntech Manual, the loss of the upper parameters will occur with Version 12 of the Chroma's firmware.

You can have these programs back - as well as access to the MIDI interface's features - by upgrading to Version 14 of the firmware.

The newer firmware images are available on-line.

Jesper Ödemark [21010135] · Thu, 27 May 2010 08:55:10 +0200

Re: a few issues - OT

By the way - yes, it's true! My Chroma 0094 is now in the possession of Matt Ishq.

I bet that you suddenly run across a Chroma in need of love on one of those trips across Europe. It might be hard to get it home in a small convertible though. :)

*keeping my fingers crossed*

Sandro Sfregola [21010294] · Fri, 28 May 2010 02:10:47 +0200

Re: a few issues - OT

I have been able to load my Chroma in my small Peugeot 106 (collapsing the rear seats)!

Tom Klepacki [21030025] · Thu, 27 May 2010 20:40:23 -0400

Re: a few issues - OT

A chroma, in the original case, fits exactly in the sunken trunk area of a 1966 Ford Galaxie. Allowing several suitcases to go on top of it. I did it in 1982, from L.I., NY to Woburn, for servicing.

Jesper Ödemark [21010135] · Fri, 28 May 2010 17:25:37 +0200

Re: a few issues - OT

I have been able to load my Chroma in my small Peugeot 106 (collapsing the rear seats)!

But if the kids want to come too? ;) (Volvo 740 wagon)

Hey, back to Chroma business. Time to upgrade? :) (Wikipedia: ARP Chroma)

And... any news regarding the success of the aftertouch board?

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Sat, 29 May 2010 21:51:47 -0700

a few issues - Wikipedia

On 2010-05-28, at 8:25 AM, jesper wrote:

Hey, back to Chroma business. Time to upgrade? :) (Wikipedia: ARP Chroma)

I started writing something for Wikipedia about a year ago. But then I realized a couple of things. First, it would be another thing to maintain (and who knows if it would be vandalized, etc.). Second, if you do a search for 'rhodes chroma' now you get rhodeschroma.com, and in my humble opinion there's nothing much wrong with that. I suppose an argument could be made that it would be good to have a short introductory article on the wiki, and change it from ARP to Rhodes. But that would almost certainly result in the article becoming the number one result in search engines, and the site potentially losing a lot of visits.

Contrary opinions? I suppose someone may do this some day anyway, but I've not had a good reason to do it myself.

By the way, there is a longer article on the Italian Wikipedia (see ARP Chroma)—did someone here write this?—and an article on ARP Instruments, Inc.

Jesper Ödemark [21010135]Sun, 30 May 2010 10:27:11 +0200

Re: a few issues - Wikipedia

You're very right about that. I guess I mainly thought "ARP" should change to "Rhodes" but I fully agree that your site is worth a lot more visits.

Go to next message in thread, June 2010

PROGRESS! now, errors upon booting

RJ Krohn [21030455] · Thu, 27 May 2010 04:48:31 -0700

hey guys, so i had posted a while back about my chroma's inability to respond to the panel [see for instance Control panel not responding; pt. 2, April 2010]. i sent it to a tech w/a chroma. he says "i dont know what you are talking about, i put it in mine and it works perfectly". so i get it back, and boom-it works great. all panel buttons responding. now, i have this issue:

upon boot, it goes through the autotune function, and then comes back with "ER 1 3 4 5 6 7". only two voices are triggering, and they sound "wobbly" (not like LFO wobble, like controlling CV acting wierd "wobbly"). if i leave it on for 5 minutes, and do the autotune function, it will eventually go down to NO voices working (" 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7").

i've got a new PSU in, and a CC+ board. when i got the machine, there was a screw laying on the board that all the voice cards seat into. could all 8 voices really be bad, or is this more likely a failure elsewhere? thanks alot for the help, rj

Paul DeRocco [21030230] · Thu, 27 May 2010 10:32:21 -0700

First, I'd reseat all the internal cables, especially power. If that doesn't fix it, I'd suspect the power supply all over again. There are other possibilities, but that's the most likely.

RJ Krohn [21030455] · Thu, 27 May 2010 10:47:19 -0700

thanks for this. the PSU specs-which are a BRAND new supply fresh from italy-look good to me; +11.89, -11.92, +5.04. i will check harnesses to the motherboard and cc+, which i've already reseated.

at this point, im suspecting motherboard next, as the IO board worked fine at tech's house, cc+ is new, and psu is new, but gonna make sure all harnesses are seated properly. thanks.

Leonardo Ascarrunz [no serial number] · Thu, 27 May 2010 11:50:06 -0600

Make sure the DAC is properly calibrated.

CC+ for sale, new and unused

Paul Hackett-Evans [21010094] · Fri, 28 May 2010 12:30:11 +0100

Hi everyone,

I have a CC+ board and MIDI connection kit for sale. It's absolutely as new, still in the shipping box from Sandro and has never been unpacked, handled or installed.

I bought it for my Chroma but didn't install it, because on the odd occasion I had the Chroma out after restoring it, I played it rather than disassemble it!!

The person who was originally going to buy it hasn't come back to me yet, and I'm keen to sell it quickly (although the offer to my original buyer is still open if he replies to me first).

I'd be happy to sell it for GBP 250, which is significantly less than the new cost, even though mine is new and unused.

It's ready to ship right away!

Please email me at [address removed]

Touched By Sound Midi Interface on German ebay

Michael Zacherl [21030253] · Sat, 29 May 2010 14:18:42 +0200

Hi,

TBS Midi-Interface for Rhodes Chroma on German ebay: #350016598934

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Sat, 29 May 2010 21:35:03 -0700

This is one of those perennially listed, vastly overpriced items. It's currently listed for €399,00, which is almost USD$500. Consider that you can get a CPU Plus, with MIDI, for €324; Ken Yparilla has a few of his Syntech/Chroma Cult kits, to which the TBS appears to be equivalent, available for $100.

Footswitch on eBay

Mark Smith [2103-PT-002] · Sun, 30 May 2010 13:56:36 +0000

Hi -

I've put a Chroma Dual Footswitch on eBay. Needs leaf switches, caps, and cord. $35

Item #260611409323. Pictures: