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ChromaTalk Archives: March 2011

Two chromas for sale

Kevin Kelley [21030491+] · Thu, 3 Mar 2011 08:06:13 -0800

Hello to all on the mailing list . I have two Chromas that I had planned to restore (both have power supply issues and have been stored for about 5+ years). I am unable to work on this project as I already have too many projects to complete. I need to make some room in my workspace and am wanting to see if anyone on this list may be interested in purchasing one or both of the Chromas? They are both in the registry [21030491, 21030713]. I live in Florida and would prefer local pickup if at all possible. I was thinking $900.00 each if anyone is interested. I really do not want to use the bay if these could go to someone on the list.

Philippe [21010227] · Thu, 3 Mar 2011 17:10:59 +0100

Hi Kevin,

If you are OK to ship them to France (I would arrange the pick up with my shipping company after you received my payment) then consider them sold. Could you give me more infos about what accessories come with them and send me some pictures?

Luca Sasdelli [21010226] · Thu, 03 Mar 2011 17:12:06 +0100

Wow... just 4 minutes! :)

Philippe [21010227] · Thu, 3 Mar 2011 17:16:27 +0100

Well yes, Kevin's offer came just when I was reading my emails. Sorry to email to the list!

Rob Belcher [16330123] · Thu, 03 Mar 2011 16:55:01 +0000

Expect to see them on sale for 3 times the price on ebay/ at your nearest dealer soon LOL

Patrik Gudmundsäter [21010240] · Thu, 3 Mar 2011 18:30:51 +0100

Thats probably right! I could also be interested in one for spares.

Mal Meehan [21010182++] · Thu, 3 Mar 2011 12:46:53 -0500

Hi Kevin

I would be interested in one, if not both... I'm up in Brooklyn NYC, so if they can be shipped up the coast I would be in.

Let me know.

Frank Hettlich [21030041+] · Thu, 03 Mar 2011 19:01:30 +0100

I am not interested in buying one of these Chromas but I would prefer if our "community" has the spirit to "share" good deals. Could be that 2 persons get one each. This world needs more cooperation and less competition...

My 2 cents

Andrew Kirkby · Sat, 5 Mar 2011 00:54:53 +1100

I would also be interested in one for parts.

iPad Editors

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Thu, 3 Mar 2011 23:16:53 -0800

I've added an iPad Editors page to the site. It's amazing to see Chroma editors for a platform that's less than a year old! Matrix and Michael, if you'd like to add anything to your respective entries, please let me know.

Matrix [21030220] · Thu, 3 Mar 2011 23:22:23 -0800

Thanks Chris. I'm honored to be on the site.

Michael R [21030869] · Fri, 4 Mar 2011 07:56:44 -0500

Hi Chris,

It's an honor too. The Chroma is definitely one of the best vintage poly analog around, but with a terrible user interface... it deserves modern editing tools and better user experience! Stay tuned for other iControlMIDI iPad editors for vintage poly analog to be released soon (Xpander / Matrix-12).

Hi Matrix, -off topic- Is it possible to banner advertise on your blog?

Matrix [21030220] · Fri, 4 Mar 2011 10:18:46 -0800

Michael, I'll contact you offline regarding MATRIXSYNTH, but in short in case anyone else is interested, the answer if yes. It's free on this page which is linked off of the front page.

The format is 250px x 100px. I used to allow any size on the front page but too many requests came in and they did not fit, so I went with the 250px x 100px format. That became to many on the front page so I moved them over to the link above.

Rob Belcher [16330123] · Fri, 04 Mar 2011 18:23:47 +0000

I think the iPad editors are a great idea, but unfortunately i don't have one of those....... I just wish someone would do a VST editor, i would be SOOOOOO happy to see a software VST editor for the PC. I have one for my Pulse and Virus rack and they are great.

Michael Salmon [21030155] · Fri, 4 Mar 2011 10:27:23 -0800

if theres something i can do to help with android let me know, android app development is my day job and i work for verizon wireless so i work on all the cool new devices

Matrix [21030220] · Fri, 4 Mar 2011 11:12:19 -0800

Hopefully they will go down in price over time. I'm guessing you'll be able to pick the first gen up for $50 in a couple of years. I'm the opposite regarding PC editors. I just feel detached using the mouse and keyboard. But that's just me. Everyone has different preferences with how they interface with their gear. I'm trying out the M-Audio Venom for a review and the first thing I did was start on a template for it. I'm just about done. The great thing about creating it is it forces me to go through every single parameter on the synth.

I take back what I said before regarding it being simple. It obviously depends on the synth. The Venom has a ton of parameters and the editor is taking a LOT of time. The Chroma took a ton of time as well, but being my first, I was a bit excited about it so I think I enjoyed making it more.

A plug for Michael: if you value your time and consider your options, his editors are valuable. Since he came out with his FS1R editor, I'm on the fence on completing mine and considering his. It's a lot of work.

Re: Chroma 21030431 on eBay

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:35:48 -0800

Go to first message in thread, February 2011

On 22/02/2011, at 12:16 PM, Chris Ryan wrote:

Item #180630185035, USD$5,600.00, ends March 4. Comes with CC+, SPSU, CPS, LCD display, and two extra voice cards. Besides the pictures there's not a lot of information about the instrument's condition, and there's not much info in the registry on this one (see 21030431).

Sold for USD$5,000.00.

Odysséas Tsakas-Grigoriadis [21010242] · Sun, 6 Mar 2011 18:42:15 +0000

Holy smoke! Well, it seems prices for working Chromas have a selling threshold set at 5k$?

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:48:52 -0800

If you look at the Price History, this seems to be about the going price. What's interesting about this is that it's about the original retail price. I remember when you couldn't give away a Chroma, through the 1990s.

Tom Moravansky [21030431] · Sun, 6 Mar 2011 14:31:00 -0500

before all the available upgrades, Chromas were more of a crapshoot, especially with flakey voice cards, bad power, leaking batteries, etc. Now, they're nice, stable instruments.

Paul Tillotson [21030218] · Sun, 6 Mar 2011 13:36:41 -0800

I think the Chroma site has to be mostly responsible for the changing fortunes of the Chroma itself. There is now an engaged community of folks sharing information and using their diverse talents to improve the instrument and spread information. Chris Ryan has led the Chroma out of the wilderness of undependable obscurity and the instrument is much better off because of the site.

I've got an idea: the site Synergy.com is available and if there was ever an instrument that needs a Chroma like resurrection it would be the Synergy. How about it Chris? New project?

Patrik Gudmundsäter [21010240] · Sun, 6 Mar 2011 23:17:00 +0100

Well, that's the main reason. They can be used, and are stable. This site and the people around it shall have a big Thanks :) The sound in them is quite unique. Can't be found somewhere else.

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Sun, 6 Mar 2011 17:15:11 -0800

Synthesizer Sites

Thanks, Paul. I considered expanding the Polaris into its own site at one point; this is still a dim possibility, but there are several things that keep me from taking on another such project:

  1. The Chroma is special. I'm not that familiar with the history of all the other keyboards, but the story of the Chroma's birth (ARP through CBS/Fender, and the team being re-hired) and the fact that it was a leap forward (the keyboard, the computer interface) are somewhat unique. There are probably arguments to the contrary, but there is actually quite a lot of material on the Chroma, and a good story to tell. I think I lucked into a sweet spot: there's just the right amount of information and a good but not enormous group of owners. If I'd done something like a DX7 site, it might have been more overwhelming—and there would have been a lot more competition, whereas no one else has really put anything out there for the Chroma and Polaris. Being the "single source" helps.
  2. The Chroma is the only vintage instrument I own.
  3. The site has been quite a lot of work, and I just don't think I want to take on another project like this. It's taken twelve years to get the site to its present state. The first significant project, if I'm not forgetting something, was the Expansion Board and New Firmware, which appeared a full six years after the site was launched.
  4. Though it seems that "only" about 1200 Chromas were produced, this may be more than that for an instrument like the Synergy. This critical mass of owners—there are currently about 170 people on this list—is important to maintain interest. It's true that the site may have helped build this community and/or bring people out of the woodwork, and I wonder how many Synergy keyboards were produced, and how many remain in use.

Paul DeRocco [21030230] · Sun, 6 Mar 2011 17:53:02 -0800

Re: Synthesizer Sites

It occurs to me that, even as the main designer of the Chroma, I've never thanked you for the work you've put into the site. You've done a terrific job, and I actually refer to the site pretty often myself.

Paul Tillotson [21030218] · Sun, 6 Mar 2011 18:29:00 -0800

Re: Synthesizer Sites

Well, thanks for giving the idea a little thought anyway. How about we send some typically "wonky" Synergy IIs as gifts to Chris, David C Clarke, Sandro and a few other list members to get the ball rolling? You can try to imagine playing and programming what is alleged to be one of the most powerful synthesizers ever made while you gaze on its inert carcass with it's locked up panel and frozen LEDs knowing that even if you got it running you have no access to the powerful synth engine without resorting to a Kaypro or writing your own programs to edit. There's got to be a comparable number of instruments out there and there's lot's of them out there for cheap that need work. It's a tragedy.

Marais · Sun, 6 Mar 2011 21:50:20 -0500

Re: Synthesizer Sites

OT:

Aahhh additive synthesis, you think FM can be sterile sounding! : )

Is Stoney Stockell (sp ??) still around ? Last I heard he was with Korg and was really the worlds leading expert on the Synergy. Wasn't it a favorite of Carlos and didn't Steely Dan use it?

Chris Borman [21030194+] · Sun, 6 Mar 2011 21:48:22 -0500

Re: Synthesizer Sites

Chroma is a great design that ended too soon. What is it that makes her what she is? Without Ken [21030229] and Chris, how many would know this? Without contributions from [ChromaTalk] members, how many Chroma's would there be today? Without the original designers...

~1200 Chroma's and only 170 members? How many contribute and how many profit... A $5000 fully upgraded Chroma? From the rest of us, you are welcome for that! Would not have been otherwise. 30 years ago, could anyone have planned such longevity? Such devotion?

My Chroma is sitting less than two feet from me, soundless and in need of attention. I will be asking for help in the near future and know I can thank all of you in advance for your help. So my thanks as well for being part of such a great group!

It really comes down to another one of those life experience things that in this case, has been one of my few great experiences!

Chris Borman [21030194+] · Sun, 6 Mar 2011 21:52:36 -0500

Re: Synthesizer Sites

And next time someone offers a couple Chromas for such a good price, we should all jump on it as a group to start a spare parts depot.

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Sun, 6 Mar 2011 18:57:01 -0800

Re: Synthesizer Sites

On 06/03/2011, at 5:53 PM, Paul D. DeRocco wrote:

It occurs to me that, even as the main designer of the Chroma, I've never thanked you for the work you've put into the site. You've done a terrific job, and I actually refer to the site pretty often myself.

Thanks, Paul. It's been a great experience, indicative I think of the potential of the web, bringing together a bunch of people with a shared interest. The Chroma was and is clearly something special, not just a collection of technologies but an actual musical instrument. So, kudos to you.

Paul DeRocco [21030230] · Sun, 6 Mar 2011 19:46:23 -0800

Re: Synthesizer Sites

And next time someone offers a couple Chromas for such a good price, we should all jump on it as a group to start a spare parts depot.

I dunno, I'd be reluctant to use a Chroma for spare parts unless some irreplaceable part was destroyed, like the control panel or some of the keys. Anything that can be refurbished and got properly working is worth fixing.

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Sun, 6 Mar 2011 20:23:45 -0800

Re: Synthesizer Sites

On 06/03/2011, at 6:29 PM, Paul Tillotson wrote:

How about we send some typically "wonky" Synergy IIs as gifts to Chris, David C Clarke, Sandro and a few other list members to get the ball rolling?

Oh yes, I forgot to mention that I can be bribed. ;)

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Sun, 6 Mar 2011 20:23:45 -0800

Re: Synthesizer Sites

On 06/03/2011, at 6:29 PM, Paul Tillotson wrote:

How about we send some typically "wonky" Synergy IIs as gifts to Chris, David C Clarke, Sandro and a few other list members to get the ball rolling?

Oh yes, I forgot to mention that I can be bribed. ;)

Marais · Sun, 6 Mar 2011 23:44:16 -0500

Re: Synthesizer Sites

OT: Synergy Preservation Page

Re: Chroma Enabler #02

Go to first message in thread, February 2011

Enrico Dibennardo [21030494] · Tue, 8 Mar 2011 12:47:35 +0100

I'm afraid i missed a few messages... I've got the impression that there's a chance to order and purchase a Chroma enabler, where can i find details? (and the price of course)

Marais · Tue, 8 Mar 2011 07:06:01 -0500

Here you go: Redshift Consulting: Enabler

New england chroma repair

Bruce Sklar [21030660] · Tue, 8 Mar 2011 12:26:11 -0500

Someone had wondered about a Chroma Tech in NE area. David White, Analog Keys, Belmont Mass. (617) 868-1819.

Matrix Switches on eBay

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Wed, 9 Mar 2011 21:42:56 -0800

Item #300534854063, USD$255.00. Description: "Rhodes Chroma Matrix Switches Mounted To Top Panel. It came out of a working unit and should be fully functional but I do not take returns on user installable parts."

Picture from the auction:

Doug Terrebonne [21030114] · Wed, 9 Mar 2011 23:18:47 -0800

"Came out of a working unit"? A working Chroma was destroyed to part it out? I wouldn't support such behaviour...

Michael Zacherl [21030253] · Thu, 10 Mar 2011 12:48:29 +0100

it's not a singular case:

IMO that hurts! :-(

Matrix [21030220] · Thu, 10 Mar 2011 10:25:29 -0800

That really hurts. I don't get it. Yamaha CS60s go for good money. Will he make more parting it out? Easier to ship parts? The number of times to ship seem like it would far outweigh shipping once. How big of an audience is there even for the individual parts.

I thought this might be a joke, but I'm guessing these are the parts: [eBay link removed]

Re: Chroma Pressure Sensor - Last of the Kits

Go to first message in thread, November 2010

Riku-Sakari Kujanen [21030858] · Fri, 11 Mar 2011 19:37:55 -0700

hi chris, i'm guessing im probably quite late on this, but are there any more pressure sensor kits left?

Odysséas Tsakas-Grigoriadis [21010242] · Sat, 12 Mar 2011 14:35:14 +0000

Hi all, I know I'm probably late too, but I am ready to order a CPS kit if Chris still has any.

Chris Borman [21030194+] · Sat, 12 Mar 2011 10:21:56 -0500

I have a couple of CPS MUX boards left and five CPS Sensor Array boards, some with open traces or shorted sensors. I should be able get enough repaired for you guys Ody & Rj. I could order more PCB's if a few more chromites get interested... Odysséas, RJ and 3 additional folks get onboard and I will order another round of PCB's!

The other part needed is the FSRs which I just ordered another batch for a generic DIY Mono After Touch sensor I designed. It uses the same FSR, but the PCB has the sensors bussed together. It could be installed into the Chroma. Not poly, but still fun and $100 cheaper!

Shoot me an email with your info if you want to proceed.

Enrico Dibennardo [21030494] · Sat, 12 Mar 2011 18:03:33 +0100

I may easily be the third one.

John Simmons [21030454] · Sat, 12 Mar 2011 17:24:48 +0000

Hi Guys,

I've been thinkng about this for a while and I don't want to miss out, so you can put me down as well :)

Odysséas Tsakas-Grigoriadis [21010242] · Sat, 12 Mar 2011 20:47:53 +0000

Hello Chris,

i saw you sent me a paypal request for the CPS kit. It's for the poly aftertouch or the mono (sensors bussed togetther)? I would definitely like the poly aftertouch. If so, please send me the paypal request to : [email address removed] as the paypal acccount I use is linked with this email address.

P.S: It's funny you called me Ody, that's how my friends call me here in Grece!

Chris Borman [21030194+] · Sat, 12 Mar 2011 16:04:09 -0500

Yes, This if for the Poly version. I will cancel the invoice and resend to your paypal email.

Glad you are my a friend and I can call you as such!

RJ Krohn [21030455] · Sat, 12 Mar 2011 16:48:11 -0700

great-thanks, chris. i just paypalled you.

John Simmons [21030454] · Sun, 13 Mar 2011 11:10:55 +0000

Thanks Chris. Payment duly completed, can't wait!

Doug Terrebonne [21030114] · Sun, 13 Mar 2011 14:20:39 -0700

Hi Chris, I'll order one as well.

Chris Borman [21030194+] · Tue, 15 Mar 2011 07:03:16 -0400

Chroma Pressure Sensor - Last call

Still looking for a few more folks to get onboard this CPS Kit production run. Going, Going....

Norman Fay · Tue, 15 Mar 2011 20:54:07 +0000

Chroma Pressure Sensor - Last call

Put me down for one of these please!

Chris Borman [21030194+] · Tue, 15 Mar 2011 17:07:48 -0400

Chroma Pressure Sensor - Last call

Great, you're on the list and I will send you an invoice.

Chroma responding to poly AT via midi?

RJ Krohn [21030455] · Fri, 11 Mar 2011 19:40:11 -0700

hi all, im wondering if anyone can confirm or deny whether the chroma responds to poly AT via midi, of course from a midi controller that sends it?

David Clarke [21030085++] · Sat, 12 Mar 2011 07:53:51 -0500

The short answer is 'yes.'

(The Chroma itself natively supports Poly AT - and so whether or not it will respond to it via MIDI will depend on the characteristics of the MIDI converter being used with the Chroma. I'm not aware of any of the common interfaces not supporting it).

21010240 Update

Patrik Gudmundsäter [21010240] · Sat, 12 Mar 2011 19:45:06 +0100

My Chroma is working perfectly again! (Hurray)

Some voices go out of tune occasionally, with no error message but my tech has fixed it. Sounds fantastic again. I don't have the CC+. But all voiceboards are now ok. The New PSU is great though.

What's wrong with that Guy Trashing fully working Synthesizers??! (CS60) [see Matrix Switches on eBay above] Made me feel truly sick. I don't support such a behaviour!

Computer Board on eBay Australia

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Tue, 15 Mar 2011 18:53:06 -0700

Item #160558946120, current bid AUD$0.99, apparently no minimum bid, ends March 19. Description is just "not tested sold as is." I've asked the seller for more info.

Images from the auction:

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Tue, 15 Mar 2011 19:25:30 -0700

This is from Michael Di Francesco's 21040001, which now has a CC+. He writes, "I don't know how but I have 3 more of these to list, one from a machine I just bought [not yet in the registry] and another couple that came from the Joe Zawinul [Chroma]."

I told him that I think it's a good idea to keep the original board. This came up once before, but it seems to me it's good to have the stock parts on hand, even if only because a collector some years hence may prefer it to the replacement parts, however wonderful they are. Thoughts? What other CPU Plus owners have kept their original boards?

Jesper Ödemark [21010135] · Wed, 16 Mar 2011 10:33:35 +0100

I've kept all removed parts just for that reason. Not that I plan to sell the Chroma, but they might come handy if I "need to" or the CC+ develops a problem etc. Same with my original EES midi interface and all documentation from the replacement process.

The original transformer is kept as an art piece/statue in a shelf in my living room. :D

Chris Smalt [21010280+] · Wed, 16 Mar 2011 12:23:06 +0100

Do the experts have tips on how to keep these things, besides the obvious like protection from dust, humidity and static?

Paul DeRocco [21030230] · Wed, 16 Mar 2011 09:39:26 -0700

You might toss it into an anti-static bag, and tape it shut. That's enough to keep kitchen grease from settling on it. Other than that, these boards are not particularly fragile or susceptible to degradation.

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Sat, 19 Mar 2011 10:50:06 -0700

Seems to have sold for 99¢.

Chris Smalt [21010280+] · Wed, 23 Mar 2011 13:36:08 +0100

You might toss it into an anti-static bag, and tape it shut. That's enough to keep kitchen grease from settling on it.

OK, I'll tell the wife they're fine on the kitchen shelf then. ;-)

21030880 update

Paul Thompson [21030880] · Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:19:24 -0400

Just wanted to let everyone know that 21030880 cleaned up beautifully from the "foam rot" and is going to the diagnostic technician tomorrow. I hope to have her up, fully functioning, and for sale in 4-6 weeks hopefully sooner if everything checks out. Will keep you updated...

Using CC+ with iPad ... need help

Ben Vehorn [21030757] · Wed, 16 Mar 2011 17:09:16 -0400

Hi all,

I just resubscribed to the list after years of absence. I've been reading the archives recently but now have a question I wanted to ask, so I'm back as a subscriber.

I just got an iPad mainly to use as a Chroma programmer. I'm trying to use Matrix's TouchOSC/OSCulator template and am having problems. After some teething pains, I finally got everything installed and talking to each other, when changing parameters in TouchOSC I get the little flashing green lights in OSCulator and it is sending properly out my midi port to my Chroma CC+. I can tell that the Chroma is receiving the midi messages as certain parameters within the TouchOSC template will change the sound in the Chroma, but most of them do not and the ones that do seem to be mapped to the incorrect parameters. For instance, Env A1 Decay controls the filter resonance, and the Env A1 Release controls the cutoff.

I have the Chroma set to EP mode (set split 36/P6) and reset the MCM via init on P20. The MCM is set to Cult mode and I'm using the CC+ interface box that I purchased with my CC+ upgrade. My CC+ has an earlier firmware (2.13) but as far as I can tell the latest version only adds support for the alphanumerical display so I don't think this would be an issue. I double checked P22 and it is set properly for Chroma mode. P24 is set to Inst mode.

Does anyone have any advice on how I can get this working? The Chroma itself has had all available updates (inc. SPSU power and CPS aftertouch) and otherwise has been rock solid since the upgrades.

I also wanted to thank the people responsible for making the upgrades (and editors too) that took my poor old Chroma from being a barely functional mess to being a rock solid ubersynth! I made a really half-assed effort to sell it a month or two ago but am really glad I changed my mind and essentially doubled-down on it with the iPad... once I get it programming properly I honestly think it will be the best polysynth ever made.

Matrix [21030220] · Wed, 16 Mar 2011 14:24:50 -0700

What are you using as the interpreter for OSC to MIDI? Are you using OSCulator or other?

Ben Vehorn [21030757] · Wed, 16 Mar 2011 17:32:16 -0400

I'm using a licensed copy of OSCulator. latest version, with your file. It took me a while to actually get it to send out on my midi interface, but once I enabled IAC (I think it was) in my Audio Midi setup it passed the information through just fine... before that it wasn't going past OSCulator.

Also forgot to mention that I'm using an i7 2.8 Imac (late 2009) and all OS (10.6.6) software is up-to-date. Odds are that I have something set wrong, I just wanted to see if there's an important setup step that I missed. When you created the template did you make it for the standard MCM or are you running a custom one that I need to install?

Matrix [21030220] · Wed, 16 Mar 2011 14:44:17 -0700

I'm showing AEnv1Dec as set for MIDI CC 20 in the editor. Looking at The Chroma CPU Plus (CC+): User's Guide - MIDI Controllers Map it appears I used the CC# numbers in the second chart starting with:

"The default MCM which is installed with Enhanced Programming (Set Split 36, P20) below. This map attempts to provide a direct mapping for all the standard front-panel parameters on the Chroma. "

Note you can change the MIDI CC numbers in Osculator to suite your setup. If the Chroma is responding one it should respond to all. You just need to have them mapped correctly.

Marais · Wed, 16 Mar 2011 18:20:50 -0400

This sounds about as much fun as pulling teeth guys.

Maybe a good, solid FAQ would be in order.

David Clarke [21030085++] · Wed, 16 Mar 2011 18:15:09 -0400

... The MCM is set to Cult mode...

Ben - this is likely the source of your difficulties. The Cult mode (just like the KMX/Chroma Cult MIDI interface) only maps some of the MIDI controllers.

Most of the editors take advantage of the fact that the CC+ is able to map all of the controllers. You need to tell the CC+ to use this mode though - and that is done through [Set Split-36][P18] MCM Mode Selection.

Instead of "Cult" you will want to select "CuSt".

... "The default MCM which is installed with Enhanced Programming (Set Split 36, P20) below. This map attempts to provide a direct mapping for all the standard front-panel parameters on the Chroma. "

Matrix's comment here is correct, but to clarify - the Cust mode would actually let you set up your own (personalized) mapping - if you really wanted to do so. The default 'custom' setup is to have the full controller map outlined in the table - but the 'default MCM mode' (as shipped) is the Cult mode (vs. the Cust one).

Ben Vehorn [21030757] · Wed, 16 Mar 2011 18:35:50 -0400

That was it! It's alive!

I had tried Cust mode at point and it didn't seem to do anything, but perhaps I had another parameter mis-set at the time. Matrix's instructions for setup were very informative and got me most of the way there, but for the records/archives/future FAQ, here are the things that tripped me up when setting it up:

  • OSCulator was not sending midi out of my interface, even though I had it selected to do so. I had to go into Audio Midi setup on my Mac, enable IAC, and then select it as an input source within OSCulator. It then properly passed the information out of my interface, an old first gen USB MOTU Midi Express XT. Although this is listed in the OSCulator manual, I didn't see it in any of the general setup instructions on Matrix's site so if you have this problem turning IAC on may fix it.
  • The Chroma must be set to Extended Program mode... set split 36, parameter 6 set to on
  • The Chroma must be set to Custom MCM mode... set split 18 set to Cust

That was pretty much it, the rest was just basic missteps with me learning how to get the iPad/TouchOsc/Osculator stuff working properly.

Now that I have it working, It should be pretty solid unless I go start changing parameters. Thanks everyone, and especially to Matrix for making this available for free!

Matrix [21030220] · Wed, 16 Mar 2011 15:54:09 -0700

Thanks Ben! Have fun! :) Remember you can expand on the editor as well with the TouchOSC editor.

I added your notes to the main post I have here.

The post is linked to on the Rhodes Chroma site as well.

BTW, I have no problem if Chris wants to include a full copy of the post or just the steps on the Rhodes Chroma site as well. Feel free to use any of it. I don't plan on ever taking the post or site down and the reason I chose Blogger is because it is free, owned by Google and will hopefully never go down, however... you never know. Having back-ups elsewhere always helps.

Chroma Sighting on Electric Independence

Matrix [21030220] · Wed, 16 Mar 2011 14:30:14 -0700

Electric Independence: Ulrich Schnauss | Motherboard

and of course posted on MATRIXSYNTH.

BCR 2000 daisy chaining with Chroma? or iPad?

RJ Krohn [21030455] · Thu, 17 Mar 2011 04:51:26 -0700

hello all-so while not definite yet, it seems likely that my chroma will be making its first notes in my possession soon. in that event, im going to be looking for a good programming interface. my questions:

  1. can the BCR2000's be daisy chained and set up so that their is a dedicated knob for each parameter upon boot up?
  2. other option is the iPad editor: how do folks like it who've used it?

ideally, ill research these two options quickly, so i can know if trying to get in on the next batch of chroma enablers is the best bet for me.

Michael R [21030869] · Thu, 17 Mar 2011 08:06:50 -0400

Hi RJ,

I can talk about the iPad editor which I used with my Chroma; works great. Having all the 16 Patches drawn on the iPad, make you archive the user manual for good! Also, parameter name and value (as written on the user manual) displayed on the iPad for each parameter makes a huge difference in time spent tweaking / time to get the sound results you want. Check the video demo on our website.

Marais · Thu, 17 Mar 2011 22:06:16 -0400

Any type of discount for Chroma list members?

Doug Terrebonne [21030114] · Thu, 17 Mar 2011 19:31:24 -0700

Yes could use a couple BCR2000s but even with just 1 it is pretty comprehensive and easy to use.

Doug Terrebonne [21030114] · Thu, 17 Mar 2011 19:47:46 -0700

Michael, you should probably point out that you're the guy selling that editor too. There's also Matrix's free editor for TouchOSC.

Also an app called MIDITouch where you can make your own editor layouts. It supports direct MIDI connection to the Chroma through the camera kit's USB port and what I intend to use.

Michael R [21030869] · Fri, 18 Mar 2011 09:06:42 -0400

Salut Marais de Cygnes,

Yes, why not? I'm not aware of any other special discount for SW / HW proposed on this site; but there is a beginning for everything.

As you seems to be interested, and iChromaCC+ is certainly (today) the best Chroma iPad editing solution available, there is a premium for that; I'll do what I can and what I think is fair; you may or may not agree. There are other solutions available if you disagree.

Why is it certainly the best solution available today?

Workflow:

  • Patches drawing button selection
  • slider, + / - buttons for each parameter for 'coarse' and 'fine' workflows
  • parameter default value button (upcoming in v1.2, free upgrade) for each parameter for faster workflow

Functional:

  • plug & play (3 clicks set-up on Mac)
  • parameter name / value label for each parameter alpha numerical (Waveform = Saws and not Waveform = 1!)

Technical:

  • no additional pay software / hardware required
  • no complex setup (just select the MIDI channel!)
  • no dependencies on Mac (no risk of obsolescence, incompatibility with new MacOS X system release)
  • execution engine (written in Objective C / Objective C++) [3,000+ iOS methods available] vs. presentation engine for all other solutions available [10-20 methods available], there is room for growth!

So I offer $5 back until Sunday 20/03/2011 midnight EST

  • send me a copy of your iTunes invoice for iChromaCC+
  • send me a picture of iChromaCC+ running on your iPad
  • send me a picture of your iPad serial number (can be found in Settings / General / About)
  • send me your PayPal email address

(sorry about all this work, but I had some trouble before).

And I PayPal you back next week.

Also, I am making this offer retroactive to other Chroma list members.

Jesper Ödemark [21010135] · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 14:39:41 +0100

Don't forget the Doepfer Drehbank. More knobs and just one box. I've programmed mine and a copy of the settings is available on the site for download.

IT'S ALIVE!!!

RJ Krohn [21030455] · Fri, 18 Mar 2011 05:16:29 -0700

hey all, so only about a year after purchase, and waaaay too much logic-ic-based troubleshooting, my chroma finally made its first notes and is up and running!!!! very excited. have a few voice card errors, but already tackled the key contact issues last night, so hoping that ill be 100% soon. as an aside, john leimsider was very helpful on the tech side for me, got me sorted out on the motherboard front quite nicely. looking forward to digging in to the beast

CC+

Patrik Gudmundsäter [21010240] · Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:30:56 +0100

Looks that i will need the DC++. My Chroma won't keep the sounds :( Where can I buy it?

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:10:35 -0700

Do you mean the CC+ (CPU Plus)? See How Can I Get a CC+?

Patrik Gudmundsäter [21010240] · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 18:40:01 +0100

Now my Rhodes Chroma seem to work OK! You can listen to it here! I'm thinking about the [CC+] though. We have put a lot of hours into it.

Chroma on eBay

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:24:03 -0700

Item #180640832140, current bid USD$610, ends March 24. From the description: "It has some scuffs and scratches but otherwise the exterior is good condition. It powers up but only puts out a hum. I can't say what the problem is as I'm not a keys expert so please note that this is sold 'as is'."

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Sun, 20 Mar 2011 12:33:08 -0700

I heard back from the seller: this is Chroma 21030777, new to the registry. He also writes, "It just powers up and puts out a hum."

Current bid is now USD$1,775.00, with four days left.

Patrik Gudmundsäter [21010240] · Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:06:02 +0100

[Same item as above]

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:19:46 -0700

Sold for USD$2,410.00. This may be the record for a non-working Chroma.

Plugging In an Old Chroma

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Sun, 20 Mar 2011 11:27:09 -0700

Hi everyone, I received a question from someone who apparently has a Chroma and Expander that have been packed away for twenty years. One question she has is whether just plugging in and trying the instruments could damage them in any way. I'm really not sure about this; any advice from the tech savvy on the list?

Dave Bradley [16330135] · Sun, 20 Mar 2011 13:31:25 -0500

Maybe something will let go, maybe not. I don't know if you still have to reform capacitors by bringing up the voltage slowly with a variac.

Luca Sasdelli [21010226] · Sun, 20 Mar 2011 20:22:38 +0100

Hi Chris and all,

the only care I can think about is to replace the AC mains fuses inside with new ones, of correct value or a bit lower. It could also help in disconnecting the PSU connectors first and then power on the instrument, checking all relevant voltages afterwards as per Service Manual: Disassembly - Figure 3-5.

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Sun, 20 Mar 2011 12:27:37 -0700

Thanks. In other words, it would be wise to get some technical assistance, rather than just try to power it up.

Luca Sasdelli [21010226] · Sun, 20 Mar 2011 20:32:51 +0100

Twenty years is a long time: a more prudential approach could help in saving an old instrument ;) Technically speaking, main suspects are the capacitors and such as a leak/failure, with the high current drawn by the CPU board, could cause an excessive stress during the power-up transient, that is the mean responsible for component breakdowns.

Heinz Weierhorst [21010276] · Sun, 20 Mar 2011 21:23:28 +0100

Don't forget the back-up battery. Hope it has been removed before storage.

Michael Krewitsky [21030504+] · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 09:27:47 -0700

Hello,

I will weigh in on this.

Probably one thing to be aware of, if if this was packed away with batteries in it, they have almost certainly died and leaked onto the boards by now. It would be advisable to open the units, inspect and remove the batteries and carefully clean up any battery leakage before attempting to turn these on. The battery leakage could potentially cause shorts which will cause more damage if turned on before cleanup. I would also pull the main PS connector off and look at voltages before connecting to the rest of the unit and powering up, just to be safe.... probably the power supply has dried out and died too, in that amount of time in storage. It will likely need a PS replacement like almost all Chromas....

Hope that helps.

Error messages and voice cards

David Hobson [21030506] · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 01:41:14 -0500

Hello,

I was wondering if anybody could diagnose a problem I am having with my Chroma: When I power it on or do a reset (set split 50) The Chroma shows that voice one has an error ... now, later on when I do an auto tune it shows an error of 15. I am going to invest in the CC+, maybe that's where the trouble lies? Also I have an additional Chroma with beige voice cards, are these an older style? And if they are or are not, will they work to replace one of my green voice cards.

Thank you in advance for your assistance

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 00:15:50 -0700

Just to be clear, it's not an error number you're seeing; it's a listing of bad voice boards. See What does 'Err 012' (or the like) mean? in the FAQ.

See Voice Board Revisions: The Changing Face of Chroma Dual Channel Voice Boards. Perhaps you have the ARP boards.

Jesper Ödemark [21010135] · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 16:44:08 +0100

A new PSU solved the mentioned problems for me. Each figure 0-7 indicates which voice card is not tuning properly. Mine did like yours, first 7 cards was OK, then 6 and then it got worse and worse... The card should be interchangeable but double-check with the techs on the list! :)

Good luck.

Paul DeRocco [21030230] · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 09:31:23 -0700

I was wondering if anybody could diagnose a problem I am having with my Chroma: When I power it on or do a reset (set split 50) The Chroma shows that voice one has an error ... now, later on when I do an auto tune it shows an error of 15. I am going to invest in the CC+, maybe that's where the trouble lies?

It's highly unlikely that changing the CPU will fix the tuning problem. Sometimes, this is a power supply issue, but in my own instruments over the years, failed boards were generally the boards themselves, sometimes blown CMOS chips, sometimes dried out electrolytics in the VCF preventing self-oscillation.

Also I have an additional Chroma with beige voice cards, are these an older style? And if they are or are not, will they work to replace one of my green voice cards. Thank you in advance for your assistance

I don't think we introduced any incompatibilities at any point during production. The old ones just look different.

Downloading "new paramater chart" from site?

RJ Krohn [21030455] · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 05:26:05 -0700

hi all, im wondering if there is a way to obtain this file off of the chroma site? i see that the old one can be downloaded, but i don't see a link to pull the new one, just to view it. is it right under my eyes and i just don't see it? thanks for pointing me in the right direction (has anyone done a big, nice quality printout to go on their wall or anything? think im gonna look into this, in the absence of an enabler :)

oh, and as an aside, this is my 1st week with a working chroma, and it sure is fun. sounds fantastic. i can see how once the programming interface issue is cracked, it is gonna be a real gem.

Ben Vehorn [21030757] · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 09:26:03 -0400

Get an iPad and don't look back, it's seriously amazing. Having a touchscreen interface for the chroma takes it beyond the CS80 as an instrument in my opinion.

RJ Krohn [21030455] · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 06:51:18 -0700

thanks ben (cs80 is in good hands, haha). i can see what you mean. i can already tell that the chroma is going to be good at making sounds that don't immediately scream "im a synth sound", if that makes sense. "organic"?

so does the iPad editor make the patch VALUES easier to understand as well? it displays not just numerical value, but the text value as well? one of my issues is that im never gonna remember the paramater values that correspond to text, i.e. parameter 3 @ 14 means "sequencer". if it DOES, then thats pretty nice.... also, are you using touchOSC or the other one?

Chris Borman [21030194+] · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 10:03:09 -0400

That is interesting. I believe the CC+ LCD interface displays such info. What would it take to forward that to the iPad?

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 07:36:21 -0700

hi all, im wondering if there is a way to obtain this file off of the chroma site? i see that the old one can be downloaded, but i don't see a link to pull the new one, just to view it. is it right under my eyes and i just don't see it?

Both files are just straight links; it's odd that one is working differently from the other for you. They should both be handled by the browser—on Mac OS X, they're displayed inline, at least in Safari. Try right-clicking and selecting a download option from the contextual menu (the name of the command will differ by browser and platform).

Marais · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 10:53:45 -0400

Why are documents on the Chroma site setup this way btw and not as PDF's ? Just curious.

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 07:40:50 -0700

They are PDFs.

Marais · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 11:03:44 -0400

The manuals are downloadable PDF's then?

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 07:55:21 -0700

I was talking about the parameter chart, as per RJ's original request, but most of the manuals are downloadable as PDFs as well (scanned, without selectable text). However, the HTML versions are probably generally easier to use, with hyperlinks, indexing and such, and the site has a print style sheet if you want to commit them to paper. A few years back I received a couple of requests to do single-page HTML versions--would that be more useful?

RJ Krohn [21030455] · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 08:18:11 -0700

nevermind, got it sorted. i was control-clicking on the main page image, and it was only allowing me to "save as" a gif file(unreadable, essentially). clicking on the full file and "save as" got it as a pdf. thanks!

Marais · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 11:37:23 -0400

What's the easiest way to print the manuals then? Thank you

Marais · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 11:51:32 -0400

I found the Programing Manual PDF here:

Is the a performance manual in PDF?

Just wanting to easily print out and bind for home.

Thank you

Ben Vehorn [21030757] · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 11:56:52 -0400

Yes, you'll not need the parameter chart with an iPad editor because all the mod source/destination (i.e. things that aren't well represented by numbers) are displayed on the screen. This was my problem with the BCR2000, a knob doesn't tell you what that numerical value means. I was going to use the Mackie C4 (which displays text per knob) but it doesn't operate in standalone mode, you need to have a computer in the chain.

There are a couple of editors available, the iControlmidi one that costs money (and doesn't require additional paid software to use) and the Matrixsynth one that is free (and requires the $4.99 TouchOSC app). I'm using the Matrixsynth one and have no experience with the other so I can't comment on it. If you haven't watched the video of the Matrix one on youtube, you should check it out to see what one of the screens look like in action. I was prepared for there to be a bit of a lag when programming via the iPad, but it seems to be pretty much near zero on the latency scale, the Chroma parameters change quickly and responsively.

If you go the iPad route, here's what it takes to use the Matrix editor: Step One---TouchOSC is a control program that runs on an iPad/Iphone and allows you to send OSC protocol messages over a wifi network. There is a free editor that allows to create and edit your control layouts. Once I get deeper into it, I plan to edit the Matrix template to add more X/Y touchpad controls since I find them useful... the beauty is that you can set up the Chroma interface however you like. You can also create your own templates to control/edit anything that responds to midi. Cost: $4.99 at app store.

Step Two---You then need to convert these OSC messages to midi so the Chroma can recognize them. I'm running a program on my Mac called OSCulator that does this, but since my Chroma isn't in the control room and I don't have midi lines going to the room it's in I've ordered the Missing Link (via wifimidi.com) to take care of this step. It's a standalone midi box with wifi built in and it allows direct conversion over wifi of OSC messages to midi. Once I move the Chroma back into the keyboard room, I'll be able to control it via the iPad over wifi without a computer in the chain, essentially making it a standalone editor a la Roland PG-x00 (although you do need wifi). Matrixsynth provides free files for both Missing Link and OSCulator for this step. Cost: OSCulator free demo or ~$20 license, Missing Link $150

Once you configure a few network things and set a few things on the Chroma, it's good to go. The only reason I compared it to the CS80 is that, with the CPS now available for the Chroma, the only thing keeping it from being on par (or possibly even better) than the CS80 was the user interface. Granted it takes a bit of money and effor to get it operational with the Chroma, but the iPad makes it every bit as easy to program as the 80. And like I mentioned before, you could create your own programmer interface for it with TouchOSC editor, or reconfigure the Matrix one to whatever layout you like.

The first generation iPads are on sale, I bought a reconditioned one for 30% off at the Apple store. Using it as a synth programmer/DAW controller requires very few resources, so I didn't feel I needed the horsepower of the new one. It's working perfectly for this. The only drawback I can see so far is that the TouchOSC programmer doesn't display the values of the patch currently being edited... I'm sure it can be done but right now I don't have the Chroma hooked up bidirectional via midi and it would require that as well as sending the info back to the iPad via wifi.

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 09:01:36 -0700

Marais wrote:

I found the Programing Manual PDF here.

Yes, I sent this link in my last email.

Is the a performance manual in PDF ?

No.

Just wanting to easily print out and bind for home.

You can print it from the browser; there is a print style sheet so you won't get the site navigation.

Brian McCully [21030361] · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 09:48:21 -0700

iPad bi-directional communication

The only drawback I can see so far is that the TouchOSC programmer doesn't display the values of the patch currently being edited... I'm sure it can be done but right now I don't have the Chroma hooked up bidirectional via midi and it would require that as well as sending the info back to the Ipad via wifi.

I've been curious as to this functionality - whether or not I can assume that the available editor(s) for the iPad are bi-directional, or just a shot in the dark (touch and edit with no 'pre-loaded' value from the Chroma...?). How do the apps load up the current voice parameters? On the fly when you switch patches? Can I switch patches?

Also I'm not entirely convinced the basic touch functionality of the (new or old) iPad is so engaging. It seems to take a lot of 2nd or 3rd gestures to accomplish some basic tasks. e.g. when 'grabbing' a knob to move it, it sometimes either doesn't respond, or flips its up/down (min -> max) logic. Or try moving two side by side drawbars on the Garage Band (B3) organ instrument and ... it won't - it might do every other one.

I've spent more than a few hours messing around with Garage Band and other apps in the Apple Store (just to get a feel for the interface) and am not convinced it's the 'next biggest thing'. Anyone else have less than stellar experiences?

Michael R [21030869] · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 15:02:29 -0400

Re: iPad bi-directional communication

Hi Brian,

I can tell you what we are doing in iControlMIDI iChromaCC+.

Right now we are doing one way communication iPad -> Chroma.

However, the backbone of iControlMIDI is bidirectional. It will be required to:

  • Send MIDI Sysex Dump Request message
  • Receive / parse the Dump
  • Display it on the UI

That's a lot of development, custom for each synth (as the MIDI Sysex Dump request message is different for each synth, if supported).

Not sure we'd like to implement this in the short term.

RE: knob / gesture; we tried those in the earlier phase of the design and it was not satisfacty to us, so we decided to stick with sliders only.

Matrix [21030220] · DATE

Re: iPad bi-directional communication

"RE: knob / gesture; we tried those in the earlier phase of the design and it was not satisfacty to us, so we decided to stick with sliders only."

I agree. Sliders are much better than knobs on the iPad.

spuzroy : "Also I'm not entirely convinced the basic touch functionality of the (new or old) iPad is so engaging. It seems to take a lot of 2nd or 3rd gestures to accomplish some basic tasks. e.g. when 'grabbing' a knob to move it, it sometimes either doesn't respond, or flips its up/down (min -> max) logic. Or try moving two side by side drawbars on the Garage Band (B3) organ instrument and ... it won't - it might do every other one. "

Interesting. I haven't experienced this with other apps. Maybe a Garage Band issue or other? I'd test out some other apps and maybe reset your iPad? The iPad is always instantly responsive for me and it let me do much more than fixed hardware.

Brian McCully [21030361] · Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:44:43 -0700

Re: iPad bi-directional communication

Interesting. I haven't experienced this with other apps. Maybe a Garage Band issue or other? I'd test out some other apps and maybe reset your iPad? The iPad is always instantly responsive for me and it let me do much more than fixed hardware.

It's the Apple Store's iPad 2's that I'm checking out. There are no global or system settings or adjustments for touch - I've asked. I haven't felt the need for re-setting any given iPad because they all act the same, and I've tried about a half dozen or so.

It could be that those particular apps are lame, or that your sliders and code allow for more sensitivity, or that the surface area per slider is better for my finger tips, finger meat, and/or cold fingers. Dunno. I've only been able to check out the demo apps in the store. I've tried also the iPod Touch and it seems the same, but haven't tried any music apps. btw, is your app bi-directional?

Matrix [21030220] · Tue, 22 Mar 2011 12:01:25 -0700

Re: iPad bi-directional communication

It's actually not my app. It's a template I created with TouchOSC. TouchOSC is bidirectional with OSC but I'm not sure about MIDI. I'm using The Missing Link over wireless for TouchOSC to MIDI and it is not bi-directional... yet. The Missing Link will eventually support bi-drectional comm over MIDI. I'm not sure how that will pan out with my template and the Chroma. It's no worse that changing patches on any knob laden synth - typically knobs don't auto adjust and you just edit. Once you do edit you graphically do see where you are. It's also worth nothing that TouchOSC does not currently display values like iChroma or MIDI Touch. It does of course have visual feedback. I'd recommend checking out the video.

You can find some other template videos on my channel.

I completed one for the Waldorf Pulse+ which should work with the Pulse, and I just completed one for the M-Audio Venom. Note I went with TouchOSC as I wanted to go wireless and received a prototype of The Missing Link to test out. I plan on trying out Michael's iControlMIDI editors as well as MIDI Touch and S1MIDITrigger. Creating a full blown template takes a LOT of time. On the fly controls on the other hand are typically quick to do.

Chris Smalt [21010280+] · Tue, 22 Mar 2011 23:27:16 +0100

Re: iPad bi-directional communication

It could be that those particular apps are lame, or that your sliders and code allow for more sensitivity, or that the surface area per slider is better for my finger tips, finger meat, and/or cold fingers. Dunno.

I've seen the same problems with touch response in early iPhone apps . Typically an update of the app would solve these. It's important to provide the developers with feedback - they may not be aware of the issue, even though it may seem obvious to you.

CPS kit

Enrico Dibennardo [21030494] · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 13:33:32 +0100

Hello, I received three invoices already, i wonder why.

I said, you can count me in, you said, when at least 10 people are interested we can plan a run, ok, I understand you are still counting how many we are, so... why you are sending invoices. In any case you didn't announce you would be sending an invoice, i received it just minutes after i had said that you could count me in for a kit run. I'm reliable and punctual as everyone on this list so, when you'll say that the number of people has been reached and it is reasonable to consider the kit being ready in more or less X weeks, i will be happy to send the payment. Otoh i saw everybody happy to receive the invoice, may be i did miss something. Pardon me for my telegraphic message but surely it was less telegraphic than an invoice.

Chris Borman [21030194+] · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 09:38:22 -0400

No problems. I assumed you were ready and sent an invoice. The others are just reminders. I have received 10 requests, 6 paid. The FSRs and PCBs long lead items are ordered and will arrive within three weeks. I was able to add the extra FSRs onto my existing order of my other project.

I still need to order the remaining parts to build up the PCBs and assemble the Kits, so as soon as you (or one of other remaining folks) can pay it would be appreciated.

Go to next message in thread, April 2011

Oscillator fault

RJ Krohn [21030455] · Mon, 21 Mar 2011 09:53:34 -0700

hi all-using the "alternate method" of calibrating VCO's on the chroma site, i have found a fault in OSC B of the one voice board that consistently fails tuning for me. going by ear, im pretty sure i got the null point where the fundamental drops out to calibrate properly, but TONALLY, this one VCO sounds noticeably different than the other 15. best i can describe it is that on a sawtooth, it sounds like its being modulated by a noise source(kinda "gargly").

on this board, i have replaced Z19, Z20, Z25 and changed out the elec caps(was fixing a filter fault, and swapped the 10uf while i had it out). as i dont have my scope set up at this location, im strictly going by DVM and ear.

any suspects? i have a spare card that fails tuning that i could scavenge CEM chips out of if i had likely culprits for the fault. thanks, rj

Chroma flickage

RJ Krohn [21030455] · Wed, 23 Mar 2011 11:00:31 -0700

hey all, i'm sure nearly all of you don't need to see what a chroma looks like again-you could look at your own-but i shot this quick flick, mostly cause after a 12+ month wait, my chroma is not only working, but all voices are tuning up. so it's somewhat exciting for me.

above it is a yamaha cs-5 i rebuilt from the dead, hence the custom end cheeks. (most polysynths seem to prefer having a mono on top of them, it seems). once these pesky iPad 2's get in stock, i should be ripping and running on programming as well....good times.

Jesper Ödemark [21010135] · Wed, 23 Mar 2011 19:36:37 +0100

The CS-5 looks like a midget on top of the Chroma and even the P-5 is somewhat dwarfed beside it. :D

I, for once, have a poly on top of my Chroma. A very small poly though, the Akai VX-600. :)

Great to hear about the resurrection of yet another Chroma. The analogue geeks and gear-heads of the future sure can thank the site, the list and all the competent techs and enthusiasts on it for MANY of the once lost Chromas.

Randel Osborne [21030467] · Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:32:19 -0400

Congratulations!

Now get that Polymoog running. ;-) I estimate that half of the time I've spent with a soldering iron in my hand is somehow Polymoog related...

Marais · Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:54:51 -0400

Chroma top sensitivity

I cannot really put anything on top of my Chroma as it usually sends 1 or 2 boards to Error after the first auto tune attempt once doing so. Anyone have any ideas on how to combat this ? I know there are some foam strips on under the top cover to help hold the boards into place, but perhaps mine are not doing this and when some weight is put on the cover they do something else ? Also, I do think it is important to make sure the vents on the top panel stay clear for convection cooling.

RJ Krohn [21030455] · Wed, 23 Mar 2011 12:32:33 -0700

oh, the polymoog is up and running. every now and then, it behaves bizarrely, but not enough to put it back on the bench (yes, i threw some hours down the drain on that one as well!).

Luca Sasdelli [21010226] · Wed, 23 Mar 2011 21:01:00 +0100

Re: Chroma top sensitivity

Hi Marais,

I found the DVBs connectors to motherboard being quite unstable; i suggest to cleanly desolder them and then re-solder with great care.

Another cause of tuning failure are the tempco resistors, that slowly bring osc beyond their tunable limits: try to mount a 39kOhm 1% metal resistor in parallel to each one on the VCO section, and then re-tune all boards. Note: before re-tuning, make sure the +5V analog is exactly 5.05V and the DAC offset on I/O board is as closest to zero as possible.

On my side, on top of my Chroma there is an excellent Yamaha AN1x, bought used for a very low price but with great sound and programming capability: sometimes it's hard to choose the right one :)

Patrik Gudmundsäter [21010240] · Wed, 23 Mar 2011 21:07:06 +0100

Re: Chroma top sensitivity

I avoid to put anything heavy on the Chroma. The boards are a bit fragile. Also,if you take them out of the rack be extremely carefull.

Expander to Chroma Audio Cable Wiring

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:45:09 -0700

Eric Mattei [21030443+] and I are currently working on getting the Expander Performance Manual—which, until recently, I didn't even know existed—onto the site. Unfortunately it looks like a rush job by CBS/Fender, and there are no diagrams. Though most will correspond closely to those found in the Chroma Performance Manual, and we're working on adapting these, there is at least one that references a capability I've never seen mentioned before. The Hookup section of the manual says that "the Expander's audio can be mixed with the Chroma's by using a stereo phone to phone cable that has been wired like the [missing] diagram. Connect this from the Expander's HIGH LEVEL MONO OUT jack to the Chroma's AUDIO INPUTS/OUTPUTS 0 jack. (Expander tip to Chroma ring.)" Does anyone know how this would be wired, or have any information? We assume it would be similar to the send/receive jack for effects.

Chris Ryan [21030691] · Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:49:58 -0700

Sorry, made an error in the link: see Alternate Audio Hookups: Send/Receive.

Dave Bradley [16330135] · Thu, 24 Mar 2011 20:25:41 -0500

I feel cheated. When I bought my Expander new, it came with a regular old performance manual, identical to the one shipped for regular Chromas.

Dave Bradley [16330135] · Thu, 24 Mar 2011 20:29:44 -0500

"Expander tip to Chroma ring" describes it correctly.

You would have to make a patch cable with the tip of one end connected to the ring of the other end, with the ends marked so you would plug it in correctly.

Eric W. Mattei [21030443+] · Thu, 24 Mar 2011 19:43:51 -0700

Dave Bradley wrote:

"Expander tip to Chroma ring" describes it correctly.

So the Chroma tip and Expander ring are not connected?

You would have to make a patch cable with the tip of one end connected to the ring of the other end, with the ends marked so you would plug it in correctly.

If you plug it in backwards, do bad things happen or does it just not work?

Re: "I feel cheated..." Interesting. When did you buy your Expander? I bought mine [16330105] in October 1983. Thanks for helping.

Dave Bradley [16330135] · Thu, 24 Mar 2011 22:11:50 -0500

Hmmm, good question. If you hook up the cable as fully cross connected - tips to rings - you would be feeding each chroma's audio into each other.

Might get a weird feedback loop, might not.

Heinz Weierhorst [21010276] · Fri, 25 Mar 2011 16:11:59 +0100

Hi all.

The cable should be:

The output device is connected to tip, the input device is connected to ring. Outputs 0 to 3 can be used as inputs. Note that the output devices sound is only audible at the mono output.

David Clarke [21030085++] · Fri, 25 Mar 2011 20:49:31 -0400

… The Hookup section of the manual says that "the Expander's audio can be mixed with the Chroma's by using a stereo phone to phone cable that has been wired like the [missing] diagram. Connect this from the Expander's HIGH LEVEL MONO OUT jack to the Chroma's AUDIO INPUTS/OUTPUTS 0 jack. (Expander tip to Chroma ring.)" Does anyone know how this would be wired, or have any information? We assume it would be similar to the send/receive jack for effects.

It's really the same idea as the send/receive jack for effects. Instead of you getting back an 'effects' return, you're just inputting a totally new signal (and the 'send' portion is a no-connect).

The general connection would be like that shown in the attached drawing. While it shows an Expander, there's nothing stopping you from hooking up whatever you want in there. [I didn't want to run extra cables all the way back to the mixer, so a few seldom used items are run into one of my Chromas this way.]

Paul Tillotson [21030218] · Fri, 25 Mar 2011 18:02:08 -0700

The Arp Quadra uses these same type jack send and receive set up. I really need to submit a photo for the site if it's of interest of the Chroma, Quadra and Arp Piano all stacked up showing the strong family resemblance. Unfortunately for me none of those mentioned instruments are functioning at the moment and the Chroma is off for minor service to get it tuned, calibrated and functional for the first time in a long time.

Eric W. Mattei [21030443+] · Fri, 25 Mar 2011 18:33:38 -0700

It didn't occur to me that you could use a mono phone jack on the Expander side. The manual says "stereo phone to phone cable" I did this diagram assuming the use of stereo jacks on both ends. Also, I think it's more intuitive if the current flows from left to right.

Eric W. Mattei [21030443+] · Fri, 25 Mar 2011 20:12:26 -0700

So I guess you could say that there are two ways to do this. But, using a mono plug on the Expander side is more economical and the mono plug serves to mark the Expander end of the cable.

David Clarke [21030085++] · Sat, 26 Mar 2011 08:59:03 -0400

... So I guess you could say that there are two ways to do this...

When I read the original note I interpreted it as:

"...by using a (stereo phone) to (phone) cable..."

vs.

"... by using a stereo (phone to phone) cable..."

but - I agree, either connection would likely work fine.

... using a mono plug on the Expander side is more economical and the mono plug serves to mark the Expander end of the cable...

Agreed.

Also, following up to Paul Tillotson's recent note about the Quadra, the Quadra User's Manual (e.g., analoghell.com_ArpQuadra-OwnersManual.pdf page #37) illustrates the wiring of a cable to use for their 'quad out' jacks.

It has a generalized cable with a Stereo Jack on one end, which is split out to two mono jacks on the other end (one for the effect send, one for the effect receive). This is also generally what you'd find commercially available as a mixer "insert cable" (e.g., Hosa Insert Cable (Stereo 1/4 inch Phone to Two 1/4 inch Phone))

Voice board S&H capacitor upgrade

Andrew Kirkby · Sat, 26 Mar 2011 15:01:34 +1100

Hello all,

I'm about to order a huge stack of parts for a Chroma restoration and i was wondering whether any of you would be interested in purchasing a set of capacitors for the sample & hold circuits on their voice boards? The capacitors that are on the stock boards (polyester) can go bad causing erroneous operation and failed cards.

I have to order 5000 of each type of capacitor however only 128 required for each set of 8 voice board and while i can certainly find uses for some of them (the same capacitors are used in many other synths) i don't know whether i can use anywhere near 5000.

I was thinking of offering S&H capacitors as a package for about $20.00 + shipping from Australia (about $10 worldwide). This would include 64x of each capacitance plus a few spares in case of accidents. This represents a significant saving when compared to Mouser/Farnell. They are WIMA 100v 10% tolerance polypropylene film capacitors optimised for S&H with the correct lead spacing for the board.

I have attached a partial parts list for the Chroma with the capacitor locations and WIMA part numbers highlighted in blue. I also plan to order a huge bunch of CMOS/74xx logic chips and precision multi-turn cermet pots for the card calibration, so if anyone else wants those i could also do a bulk order of those as well.

Michael Salmon [21030155] · Fri, 25 Mar 2011 21:28:38 -0700

I think i need to replace a voice board... "err 15". so i would be in for a set. thanks

Paul DeRocco [21030230] · Fri, 25 Mar 2011 21:30:01 -0700

Replacing all 128 S&H caps, putting in multi-turn trimmers, and going for eight dollar op-amps, sounds a tad obsessive to me. If it ain't broke...

Paul DeRocco [21030230] · Fri, 25 Mar 2011 21:36:15 -0700

I think i need to replace a voice board... "err 15". so i would be in for a set. thanks

First, "Err 15" means you have two boards that fail the auto-tune. Second, you ought to diagnose the exact problem before you start buying parts.

Doug Terrebonne [21030114] · Fri, 25 Mar 2011 22:11:38 -0700

I've never seen much of an issue with those caps. Maybe JL can chime in on them... Much more likely to fail is the 4000 series CMOS chips...

Andrew Kirkby · Sun, 27 Mar 2011 00:06:34 +1100

Hi Doug,

Yes i agree with you on that, CMOS is definitely more likely to fail than anything else- all CMOS and 74xx will be replaced and most likely socketed for ease of repair well into the future.

Paul,

it may well be overkill - but it will definitely ensure that i'm not constantly repairing the unit as has been the case with other things. (Oberheim Xpander comes to mind).

I'm not going to replace the op-amps on the cards... I think there will be only a small difference, if any. It was just there for reference :)

Paul DeRocco [21030230] · Sat, 26 Mar 2011 06:59:38 -0700

In my experience, with 16 boards in my own Chroma and Expander, I had three random CMOS chips fail on voice boards, and six electrolytics (C13 or C14) that prevented the filters from self-oscillating. Given the number of failures of the latter, I replaced all 32 of those, which took a few dollars worth of parts and less than an hour of my time.

I didn't see a single S&H failure, and I examined every control voltage with a scope for ripple.

The big cap in the PS was also toast.

John Leimseider [21030434++] · Sat, 26 Mar 2011 08:59:30 -0600

I've never seen one fail yet... Everyone should replace the yellow electrolytics on the filters on the voice boards, though. Cheap, easy...

RJ Krohn [21030455] · Sat, 26 Mar 2011 10:19:28 -0700

yea, i am by no means an expert on the chroma, so take with a grain of salt, but i dont know if ive ever seen a polystyrene cap fail on any instrument ive worked on. not that it doesnt happen, just saying.... would hate to see someone spending rehab time on a potential red herring.... to each his own though! :)

Dave Bradley [16330135] · Sat, 26 Mar 2011 12:47:48 -0500

Tantalum bypass caps, on the other hand, often eventually fail.

Paul DeRocco [21030230] · Sat, 26 Mar 2011 21:39:22 -0700

Tantalum bypass caps, on the other hand, often eventually fail.

What is their failure mode? If they just develop series resistance (even infinity), the failure of a small number of them is probably okay, because they're all in parallel with each other.

Dave Bradley [16330135] · Sat, 26 Mar 2011 23:44:00 -0500

The ones I have had fail usually short, thereby pulling a power rail to ground.

Paul DeRocco [21030230] · Sat, 26 Mar 2011 21:58:36 -0700

Oooh, smoke and sparks. Cool!

Dave Bradley [16330135] · Sun, 27 Mar 2011 11:31:55 -0500

In fact, my IO board right now has a shorted rail, and I suspect a shorted cap somewhere.

chroma for sale

Matt Ishq [21010094] · Sat, 26 Mar 2011 10:59:40 +0000

I thought i would post here first, basically things are not great with the finances, i really need to try and downsize and rebalance the books so i have my chroma up for sale (with psu upgrade and midi and in superb shape) its a highly regrettable sale but this and a Prophet 5 v 3.3 have to go and some other stuff.

If i can't sell via a direct sale it will all be up for auction.

I am based in south west uk and can deliver a fair distance, i can ship but . . .. you know collections better.

The Chroma has the case (usual foam issues) .1 paint scuff on the top black metalwork (paint scuff - not a ding) which is not major but stops it from being mint. Aside from that it's in amazing shape and very stable.

I listed below all my gear for sale whilst i am at it

please contact me direct if you need any info , open to fair offers relative to current market prices.

Paul Hackett-Evans [21010094] · Sat, 26 Mar 2011 12:00:21 +0000

Oh my god, Matt!

Let me see if I can raise the money and buy it back from you!! I've missed it!

How much are you looking for?

a few BCR-2000/alphanumeric display questions

RJ Krohn [21030455] · Sat, 26 Mar 2011 13:15:12 -0700

hi all, im wondering if anyone may have some insight into a few things:

  1. i've got a bcr-2000 interfaced w/ my chroma. i've sorted it so it can control the parameters of a patch in the chroma, however, the changes are not "permanent". if i change paramaters, and then try to STORE that new patch to a location, it just saves the old patch. the little dot that comes up that says that a paramater has been changed on the display doesn't come up when programming via the BCR. how can have the programming be received by the chroma, so i can save patches internally?
  2. does anyone know if parameter values can be "talkbacked" to the BCR-2000, so the display value is shown by each pot's location LED?
  3. my firmware is 211. i'd like to set up one of the alphanumeric displays, but i don't have an EPROM burner. buying the cable, IC, and display shouldnt be tough, but i'd need to program it. any leads on how best to do that?

Marais · Sat, 26 Mar 2011 16:37:26 -0400

Try this (info from David Clarke in previous conversation). My Enabler/chroma was doing the same thing.

"enter the programming mode with [Set Split][36], choose P24 (Select MIDI Continuous Controller Mode) and then change the setting from the default of "InSt" to "ProG". "

David Clarke [21030085++] · Sun, 27 Mar 2011 13:42:13 -0400

... i've sorted it so it can control the parameters of a patch in the chroma, however, the changes are not "permanent". if i change paramaters, and then try to STORE that new patch to a location, it just saves the old patch...

If the BCR-2000 is programmed to use MIDI CC messages, then the advice already provided on the list should address this point (e.g., [Set Split][36], P24 and change from "InSt" to "ProG".)

Expanding on this, the continuous controller changes normally affect an 'instrument' in the Chroma - it doesn't actually modify the 'program.' What that means is, you can always dynamically change the settings - but those are dynamic changes which are being sent to the voice - and they're not actually 'replacing' anything in the memory. It's for this reason that when you go to 'save' the settings they don't actually seem to be saved - because you're not really changing the 'program data'; rather, you're dynamically impacting the instrument values.

As it was recognized that this mode of operation isn't always the one that is desired, a new mode of operation was added to the CC+. A longer discussion of the change can be found in the "Rev 209 (November 2006)" section of the firmware page.

2-does anyone know if parameter values can be "talkbacked" to the BCR-2000, so the display value is shown by each pot's location LED?

Insofar as I know, there's only two ways to do this:

  1. The BCR-2000 would have to request the parameters first, so it knows that to display.
  2. The Chroma would need to (unrequested) send all of the parameters to the BCR-2000 so it knows what values to display.

#1 would depend on whether this functionality can be programmed into the BCR-2000.

#2 would require features additions to firmware on the CC+ that would do something like "whenever a patch changes - automatically send the full patch out over MIDI, either via CC or Sysex" or "whenever a specific sysex message is received, send a copy of all current parameters via MIDI CC."

i'd like to set up one of the alphanumeric displays, but i dont have an EPROM burner. buying the cable, IC, and display shouldnt be tough, but i'd need to program it. any leads on how best to do that?

The easiest way will just be to find a local friend that does electronics work. They'll undoubtedly have an EPROM burner, and since the actual image is on the Chroma site, the effort itself is quite small (e.g., about a minute's worth of work.)

If you're really stuck I'm sure the folks on the Chroma list would be able to help. The easiest way to do that would be to have someone buy the EPROM for you, program it and mail it to you - so there would be a little cost (the price of the part, plus the shipping).

If you want to have this general capability in future, then that'd likely mean picking yourself up an inexpensive programmer and a UV eraser.

RJ Krohn [21030455] · Sun, 27 Mar 2011 13:00:53 -0700

thanks alot, dave! i've got the programming set in the chroma now so it works as desired. much better.

hopefully my LAST question regarding BCR usage:

i have the sysex file for the "B" bank stored in the BCR, but the "B" presets are controlling the "A" bank. is this again, an internal setting in the chroma that needs to be set? or in the BCR? thanks so much for the help, its really opening up the instrument!

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